13-May-08 – 22:10 by ToddG

Day 2 at the Rogers Shooting School Intermediate/Advanced Pistol Class and we’re down to nine students.  It seems that one gentleman, who’d traveled halfway down the East Coast to be here, was responsible for the unexpected loud noise in our hotel last night.  Yup, he had an AD (accidental discharge).  Unknown whether he was dry-firing or simply fumbled while handling the gun.  Now he’s in Atlanta waiting for the first flight home in the morning.

Lessons to be learned:

  1. ALWAYS know the condition of your weapon, whether it’s in your hand, in your holster, or in your gun vault.
  2. NEVER touch the trigger unless the gun is pointed in a safe direction and you’re willing to destroy whatever you’re pointing at.

This guy just wasted $2,000 or more to spend a day and a half at a pistol class.  And I’m pretty sure he won’t be welcome at the Best Western in Ellijay ever again.

Train hard & stay safe!  ToddG

  1. 15 Responses to “Doh!”

  2. any clue where the round ended up? if that were me i’d be worried sick over where the thing ended up.

    By David on May 13, 2008

  3. David — negative. I heard something about it going through the shower, but even in such a small group rumors start fast so I couldn’t say for sure.

    By ToddG on May 14, 2008

  4. That is a real drag. Not in defense of the guy, but I’m sure he feels really bad about his experience.

    One of my friends had an AD the other night at the range; he was away from the group, up against and facing the earthen berm, as required for all administrative weapon handling. It was a [good] lesson for all of us, and especially reinforced our safety standards.

    By JoeB on May 14, 2008

  5. I’m sorry I don’t like that term AD. I don’t believe such a thing exists. Only NDs, Negligent Discharges. I’m glad to hear no one was hurt.

    By ChrisK. on May 14, 2008

  6. Was the guy who had the ND asked to leave by the school as part of their safety policy? Seems like a reasonable response for a school with high standards, but to keep ALL his money after 1 day!! That’s a HARD lesson to learn for sure.
    Shoot well.

    By chefdog on May 14, 2008

  7. There are two kinds of people in the shooting world. Those who have had ND/AD’s, and those who will.

    To me the rookie shooter is not nearly the safety hazard that the guy who uses a firearm daily is. It is easy to become complacent when it becomes daily routine.

    All the more reason to remember that complacency kills.

    By Sean on May 14, 2008

  8. this certainly is a good example to use when teaching others about proper gun handling. I also agree with the comment about AD’s from JoeB. Unless the gun magicaly fires due to some mechanical defect, it’s an ND.

    By rob on May 14, 2008

  9. Sean — as usual, I agree with your thought process. ADs happen. It doesn’t make them ok, it doesn’t mean we should accept them, but it happens and it’s rarely the “oh my, that guy is horribly unsafe!” situation. Experienced, squared away people make mistakes. Ever heard of a plane crash? But you nailed it square on the head, it’s more often complacency that causes problems, not inexperience. That’s why I go over safety procedures every day on the range when teaching. Anyone who gets tired of hearing four simple rules once a day is an accident waiting to happen.

    As for the AD/ND thing, I respectfully disagree. I know what an “accident” is, and accidents can be caused by negligence. People do negligent things with firearms all the time, and not necessarily by accident. To me, the term AD is both more properly descriptive and more universally understood.

    By ToddG on May 14, 2008

  10. I call it something completely different, but out of respect for Todd’s clean and professional website, I won’t share that with the group. Whatever term is used, I don’t sit up on the high horse of judgement of those who have had them. I may very well be next.

    By Sean on May 15, 2008

  11. Todd,
    I know you do not speak for Rogers, but was he told to leave the class, or did he do this on his own?

    Accidents do happen, however we have to be truthful with ourselves and admit when it is an accident or something else. I would bet that this just REINFORCED his safety practices and if someone would follow up this will probably not happen again to this same person. The loudest sound is a BANG when you expected a click.

    I am curious as to what is Rogers policy, as I do feel that 1 day and keeping the tuition is HARSH.

    By Jack on May 15, 2008

  12. At the Gunsite Class I recently attended, one of the intructors used the term Unintended Discharge or UD. Along the same lines as there are two types of shooters those who have and those who will, his philosphy was this: Everyday recite the words “I will have an unintended discharge. Just not today.”

    By JoeB on May 15, 2008

  13. Update: the “incident” was discussed briefly during a break in class today, and we were told that the student in question was only supposed to be here the first two days anyway. He got to shoot the full program both days, so he was not kicked out of class by Rogers.

    As for refunds, I don’t see any reason to refund someone money for getting kicked out of class over a safety issue. The instructor/school shouldn’t lose money just because they insulate the other students against someone who’s demonstrated a lack of adequate focus and attentiveness. The alternative is that you give instructors a financial incentive to keep dangerous students in class.

    By ToddG on May 15, 2008

  14. Most of the top tier trainers I’ve been around have in their waiver form that you can be bounced for safety issues with no refund of tuition. I think it’s a very reasonable stance to take given the possibilities of a reckless/unsafe shooter.

    By Wayne Dobbs on May 15, 2008

  15. Wayne,
    I agree if that is on the application, then you know going in.

    Is there still “homework” assigned by the school?

    By Jack on May 15, 2008

  16. Jack — there’s still the group dry-fire program Mo/Tu/We nights.

    By ToddG on May 15, 2008

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