Apparently, a major topic of interest at this year’s IDPA Nationals was the probable creation of a classification above Master to handle the growing glut of M-class shooters that range anywhere from the Sevigny’s and Leatham’s of the world to people who got lucky (or unlucky, depending on one’s point of view) one time on a bright day at the range. There was a pretty good discussion about it over on Caleb’s site (gunnuts.net). I put up a quick comment there, and felt it was worth fleshing out in more detail.
Years ago, a small group of us actually made a formal proposal to IDPA HQ to create a Champion classification. The idea behind the Champion class was pretty straightforward. Even back then, the disparity between top Masters and bottom Masters was huge, leading many serious non-professional competitors to jump divisions once they were dragged, kicking and screaming, into Master. And among those who would justifiably be in an uber-class, few cared about anything other than winning the whole shootin’ match, literally.
So Champion class, it was proposed, would work like this:
- Champion class shooters are eligible for only one trophy at major sanctioned events: Division Champion. There is no “second Champion,” there is no “High Retired Military Champion,” etc. Either you win the division, or you go home empty handed.
- Achieving Champion status happens only by placing high enough among fellow Master-class shooters at major sanctioned events. For every 10 Masters shooting a division at a major match, the top Master gets bumped to Champion. If 20 M-class shooters are there, the top two get bumped, etc. For reference, at the 2010 IDPA Championship there were 14 CDP Masters, 20 ESP Masters, 30 SSP Masters, and 4 each ESR and SSR Masters.
- There is no “Classifier score” to get into Champion. The IDPA Classifier is an outstanding test of shooting fundamentals, but a fairly poor determiner of IDPA match performance. Any classifier score that is attainable on demand by the people who should be in Champion class will also be attainable by strong M-class shooters on a good day, or anyone who wants to “grand-bag” his way into the Champion title.
- All former and future National Champions are automatically in Champion class.
At first, Champion class would be made up of very few people. But that is ok. Because the idea isn’t to create a new class full of shooters. The idea is to give the non-professional Master-class shooters a chance at walking home with a trophy better than “14th Master.” The idea is to give the active duty military guy whose job isn’t solely shooting matches a chance at winning High Military.
Over the course of a couple years, Champion will have populated enough that most of the professional shooters will be there. It will be a class that grows slowly, but that is perfectly OK. It is not intended to make up x-percent of the IDPA community. It is intended to be a way to recognize the people who have achieved at the highest level in the game, while getting them the hell out of the way for everyone else to get a chance at a trophy here and there.
At the same time, by using only match performance (and not some arbitrary classifier score), you eliminate both the grand-baggers — who would practice the classifier until they came off with a once-in-a-lifetime good enough score just to claim GM status (I would do that 8) ) — and the sand-baggers who would otherwise be able to keep their classifier score low enough to stay in Master class when they belong in GM/Champion/whatever.
Any classifier threshold is going to be difficult to determine, anyway. Do you take the personal best of people who’ve won Nationals in the past? Then by definition, most of those folks wouldn’t be able to make the score themselves on a typical day. Do you instead use a more forgiving score? Then a less skilled shooter who has a perfect day at the range suddenly finds himself forever after in a class where he doesn’t belong.
Personally, I don’t care whether they call it Champion or Grand Master or Studly Studmuffins. But in my opinion, creating a new group that simply adds to the number of trophies given out at a match and which provides people a way to reach paper GM status without a proven ability to be successful at the actual game is a waste.
And I say that as someone who will never win an IDPA National Championship but probably could pull a “GM-level” classifier out of the bag if I shot it enough times, and as someone whose résumé would look quite nice with that title next to it. A classifier dependent uber-class would be great for me, but not for IDPA.
Not that I’ve thought this through or anything…
Train hard & stay safe! ToddG
Well thought out and reasoned argument.
Therefor it’ll never happen.
Also heaven forbid IDPA have a “classifier stage” at every sanctioned match (I know, too much like IPSC) to keep a running tally of a shooters skill level.
I despise sand-baggers, and IDPA regional matches and up are full of them due to the weak classification system.
If they call it Studly Studmuffins I’ll start shooting IDPA, and try to obtain it too.
+1 on the Studly Studmuffins! I’m in then.
Seriously, great post/idea.
I don’t understand why this is bad for IDPA… Please explain. It would get me shooting it again. Those who have been so “blessed” on that fluke day to shoot beyond their norm, and have been sucked into masters, know what it is like to take your flag football team into the stadium against the Dallas Cowboys (current record aside of course!). It just takes all the fun out of it. Most of us have jobs that prohibit us from shooting our pistols for a living. For us, the IDPA stands for “I Don’t Participate Anymore”.
We don’t need no stinkin classes…lol
You pay your match fee and let the chips fall… don’t do so well then practice more.
I know, I know… we need to feed the ego machine… I get it 😉
Bryan — While I understand that perspective, it’s completely demotivational to beginner and intermediate shooters who want a chance to win but can’t even see the same hill as the top guys.
Local softball teams don’t go up against MLB pros. Your club golf tourney probably won’t have Tiger Woods show up. But in IDPA (like IPSC), the average Joe will be at the same event, shooting the same stages, as the gazillion-time world champion.
I was just joking around to get flamed Todd 🙂
It’s actually a reasonable concept, long overdue. I prefer Supreme Master though…it would be nice to out do USPSA..haha
I think “Combat Master” is taken.
From an historical perspective, “The Real Grand Master” would work. 8)
Great take, this needs to happen. I haven’t been shooting IDPA very long but I learned what a sand-bagger was before I had a handle on the difference between some of the types of reloads, now almost 2 years in I’m already getting tired of hearing certain guys whining about getting bumped up a class after winning sanctioned matches, cursing the rules on being bumped up from SS to EX after months of torching all the EX’s and many of the MA’s at local matches. Also, FWIW it’s been just over 2 years since I’d ever held a real handgun let alone shot one, and I’ve already pulled off MA scores a few times when practice shooting the classifier recently. The way the current classes aee set, if I were to make MA it would basically erase any reason for me to attend a bigger sanctioned match as that would have me shooting against guys like Sevigny and Vogel while some sand-baggers much better than myself might be collecting hardware winning as a supposed MM.
I hope this changes.
On a side note:
I’d still like to see a designation/ differentiation/ recognition of non-professional, non-supported IDPA shooters.
Call it Master Class All-American or something.
I’d also like to see a special recognition of first-year, national-level IDPA shooters to encourage them to continue. Master Class Rookie of the Year?
Just some side thoughts.
CWYS/SWYC
(Carry What You Shoot/Shoot What You Carry)
Danny — the pro/amateur split has been discussed in the past, as well. The problem is defining it.
If Ernest Langdon stops shooting for S&W and has no sponsors, is he suddenly an amateur?
Is a full time cop with no sponsors, whose guns and ammo (or at least some ammo) are provided by the department a pro or an amateur?
Does the Sharpshooter-level employee of a gun company who shoots IDPA for fun get counted as a pro?
Excellent idea! I like everything about it.
I hate them, too, but sandbaggers are a part of life. At least they get bumped up if they win a big match. Yes, they complain because now they have to practice more to win. I ignore their rants and feel sorry for them because their self-worth is built on winning. It’s us smart guys that care more about how well we improve vs. how many trophies we have.
I read this same sort of opinion before. Now I understand WHY. Reward match performance, not classifier scores. Built for people that are in it to beat everyone. Good post.
Back in the day when I shot PPC you were classified by your last two sanctioned match scores. Until you were classified you competed against the master class shooters. Back then in that discipline the larger matches had neat prizes like guns. So it was routine for guys to go to a small match and sandbag the score so that they could go to a larger match compete in a lower classification and win a prize. It was easier to handle classifications that way since the course of fire never changes.
IDPA is different. The only course of fire that remains the same is the classifier. Also your only reward is possibly a trophy and bragging rights. It would be great if they would classify based on your last two match results. If your score falls with a certain range compared to others of that class, you would be classified as that class. It would be hard to sandbag because you don’t know the course ahead of time or how the rest of the field would do, so you would be left with doing your best. To me I shoot to do the best that I can and compare myself against the rest. But I could see how a system like that would be a nightmare to keep track of.
With regards to a super class. It makes sense. Letting the elite compete against the elite. The way Todd has it set out it would be an accomplishment to reach that level by competing against the best rather than a set score. Almost like combat. Besides it gives me one more goal to reach for.
@Todd: I recognize the inherent problems you mention… but I also know that motocross and many other sports have reasonably sorted it out.
I like your plan, but curious, once a GM always a GM? Some of us have aged…
Best…
Todd, that’s one of the better takes I’ve heard on this topic. No matter what happens(or doesn’t) people will not be happy. Whatever.
I think your case is the best put forth that I’ve seen so far. That said, I’ve always considered the argument to be more about the local master shooters whining about a local or regional “Pro” swooping in to “steal” their trophy at a state or regional match.
Some people focus on the wrong things IMO. Sadly, the purpose and principles portion of the rule book is no longer what’s important. I guess that happens after the shine wears off of a new sport.
What if you called it “Master Blaster?”
Usually (always?) the people poo-pooing paper GMs are those that can’t shoot GM-level classifiers.
I can’t shoot a GM level USPSA classifier yet, but I’ll say no one makes GM in USPSA without some serious skills. They may not be as well rounded and may not shoot field courses as well as the Area winners, but that doesn’t mean they don’t have serious skills on (mostly) static stages.
Now time to go practice for the FAST drill, oh wait.
gh — Agree 100%. I didn’t say “paper GMs” are bad shooters, just that creating a new class of paper GMs is a waste. You’d simply end up with a bunch of people who push themselves on the Classifier to pull off a GM score, then never compete in that division because (just like now) they know they can’t beat the real top shooters.
If you were to go to the Brian Enos forum to do a search for “sandbagging”, you will come back with 14 pages of results and 337 hits. That leads me to believe people perceive it as a big enough problem.
So even though Bryan W. up above seems to be joking about it, I would be all for eliminating classes completely. At the major IDPA matches, prizes are selected completely at random regardless of your score.
So….yeah….just run whatchya brung head’s up within each division. The only trophy you could ever hope to win would be for division champion.
The other side effect of getting rid of the classifier system is that you now won’t ever have to run the classifier match back at your, which I think is a big PITA.
If IDPA still wants to keep the classifier system, then yeah, I would be all for a “champion class”. This would also get some of the expert and sharpshooter class shooters who win their division too. not just the Masters.