Something doesn’t feel right when I look at that picture. I don’t know if it’s jealousy or covetousness, or possibly something wrong with the ammo industry.
Why is it so hard for so many people to get a few boxes of ammo for self-defense, but 50k rounds can be put on your doorstep just to test a gun?
Something is wrong with the current market and I don’t know what it is.
Rob E — The ammo did not arrive in time for the beginning of the test, so up until now it’s been using a variety of different brands. Atlanta Arms & Ammo has provided a big chunk of what we’ve needed and more of the test may be done with their ammo, too.
David B — Like any customer of the ammo company, I placed an order and waited in line for it to be delivered. It’s not any of the ammo company’s business — nor anyone else’s — whether I’m buying that ammo for personal use, a test, or to sell to others. I’ll shoot all of that ammunition over the next six months.
The only thing “wrong” with the current market is that a lot of paranoid people have been tricked into hoarding five, ten, maybe a hundred times more ammo than they will actually shoot. The ammo manufacturers cannot keep up with that demand but they’re smart enough to realize that it won’t last and thus doesn’t justify large capital outlays for new equipment, etc.
ToddG, Well answered on all points. However, I have a question that I REALLY hope doesn’t sound “negative” to you. That is NOT the tone of this post at all….. In short, how in the world do you OBJECTIVELY test a weapon whose manufacturer is dropping tens of thousands of dollars on your doorstep. Could you really give a gun a “ripping” review if it deserved it? I am genuinely curious. I know that ultimately it comes down to integrity, but one of the reasons I’ve loved this site has been the objectivity, vs. the sales based gun magazines…. Perfect example is the review of the Rohrbaugh R9. Dead honest. I own an R9 and pistoltraining.com was the ONLY review I’ve ever read that told the whole story….. Would hate to ever see that compromised.
Thanks
I am also NOT saying I disagree with the manufacturer providing the ammo. I would certainly never expect an individual to spend that kind of money on a trial. I suppose that if the companies didn’t purchase for the tests, we would NEVER get this kind of torture test review on ANY weapon.
(Just for Clarity :-))
Stephen — No worries, perfectly legitimate question.
I guess my answer re: objectivity would be pretty simple. Search this site for pictures of a cracked M&P slide; I posted those because they happened with a test gun even though I not only got ammo from S&W, but was negotiating with them on the hopefully-soon-to-be-here pistol-training.com Edition M&P9.
Or check out last week’s P30 Thursday report, where I said the gun was having so many problems it needed to go back to the manufacturer.
I think it’s pretty clear we’re providing objective evaluations and not hiding or sugar-coating problems when they crop up.
edited to add: Which, by the way, is one of the things the manufacturer is told very clearly before the beginning of the test. We will report what happens, good bad or indifferent. We’ll always give the manufacturer an opportunity to respond, explain, and/or repair but if something goes wrong, it gets reported.
yeah one thing you can always count on is Todd being honest, brutally honest. I know, I’ve been on the receiving end of it……….”Dude, you own a Desert Eagle in .50AE?……”
Hello Todd,
From the looks of it, there appears to be at least two different type of ammo pictured. I can’t quite make out what they are… Would you be so kind as to tell us all as to what you’ll be shooting for the next few months!!! :-):-):D
Todd,I have absolutely no problems with your objectivity having seen your “transparency” with the M&P Torture Test.
My only negative comment is that I hate you for having all that ammo..I’m the one who should have it.(Insert smilies here)
To those that may suggest impropriety in the fact that a manufacturer gives Todd a gun and ammo to test it, this is no different than an automaker submitting a vehicle to “Car and Driver” for their testing and approval and springing for the gas. I’m not so certain about most print gun magazines. It’s hard to tell where the ads end and the articles begin.
Pistol-Training.com is an independent tester and has proven itself by shooting the M&P until it broke. While I’m sure S&W is thrilled with the results, it could have easily gone the other way.
I’m glad to see PT.com doing the H&K test as well. It goes to show that the M&P test was not a Smith and Wesson publicity stunt and that H&K has confidence in their product no matter what the results are.
Todd’s torture tests go to show that even with moderate use, it doesn’t take long for the cost of the ammo going through the gun to quickly exceed it’s cost by several factors. Which begs the question, why does anyone ever choose a gun because it’s “cheap”?
Geez, and I was excited when I finally got my hands on 200 rounds of HST 124gr +P. The two boxes I still have sitting on my desk here look awful lonely now. 😉
so there is 50,000 rounds there. does that mean you are going to start the test all over from the beginning when you get the pistol back? or with a different pistol?
Rob E – No, it just means we started the test before the ammo was available. So some of the ammo came from my personal supply and some came from the great folks at Atlanta Arms & Ammo.
Good Gawd!
Now I know why there is an ammunition shortage…ToddG has it all!
I hate you.
🙂
You guys act like you’ve never seen 50,000 rounds of ammo on the floor of someone’s den before!
I’m looking at Liechtenstein’s GDP.
“Now I know why there is an ammunition shortage…ToddG has it all!” let the truth be known
What a beautiful picture !
The only way I’ll ever see that much ammo will be in my dreams. lol
you suck…..I have been waiting on 500rds of .40 for 2 months on back order. I want your job soooooo bad.
That’s alot of coin…. I wonder if you would tell us WHO paid for that stash????
Stephen — HK provides the ammo for the test.
hmm I thought you were using a different ammo, not Federal
Something doesn’t feel right when I look at that picture. I don’t know if it’s jealousy or covetousness, or possibly something wrong with the ammo industry.
Why is it so hard for so many people to get a few boxes of ammo for self-defense, but 50k rounds can be put on your doorstep just to test a gun?
Something is wrong with the current market and I don’t know what it is.
God Bless,
David
Rob E — The ammo did not arrive in time for the beginning of the test, so up until now it’s been using a variety of different brands. Atlanta Arms & Ammo has provided a big chunk of what we’ve needed and more of the test may be done with their ammo, too.
David B — Like any customer of the ammo company, I placed an order and waited in line for it to be delivered. It’s not any of the ammo company’s business — nor anyone else’s — whether I’m buying that ammo for personal use, a test, or to sell to others. I’ll shoot all of that ammunition over the next six months.
The only thing “wrong” with the current market is that a lot of paranoid people have been tricked into hoarding five, ten, maybe a hundred times more ammo than they will actually shoot. The ammo manufacturers cannot keep up with that demand but they’re smart enough to realize that it won’t last and thus doesn’t justify large capital outlays for new equipment, etc.
ToddG, Well answered on all points. However, I have a question that I REALLY hope doesn’t sound “negative” to you. That is NOT the tone of this post at all….. In short, how in the world do you OBJECTIVELY test a weapon whose manufacturer is dropping tens of thousands of dollars on your doorstep. Could you really give a gun a “ripping” review if it deserved it? I am genuinely curious. I know that ultimately it comes down to integrity, but one of the reasons I’ve loved this site has been the objectivity, vs. the sales based gun magazines…. Perfect example is the review of the Rohrbaugh R9. Dead honest. I own an R9 and pistoltraining.com was the ONLY review I’ve ever read that told the whole story….. Would hate to ever see that compromised.
Thanks
B T W ! ! !
I am also NOT saying I disagree with the manufacturer providing the ammo. I would certainly never expect an individual to spend that kind of money on a trial. I suppose that if the companies didn’t purchase for the tests, we would NEVER get this kind of torture test review on ANY weapon.
(Just for Clarity :-))
Stephen — No worries, perfectly legitimate question.
I guess my answer re: objectivity would be pretty simple. Search this site for pictures of a cracked M&P slide; I posted those because they happened with a test gun even though I not only got ammo from S&W, but was negotiating with them on the hopefully-soon-to-be-here pistol-training.com Edition M&P9.
Or check out last week’s P30 Thursday report, where I said the gun was having so many problems it needed to go back to the manufacturer.
I think it’s pretty clear we’re providing objective evaluations and not hiding or sugar-coating problems when they crop up.
edited to add: Which, by the way, is one of the things the manufacturer is told very clearly before the beginning of the test. We will report what happens, good bad or indifferent. We’ll always give the manufacturer an opportunity to respond, explain, and/or repair but if something goes wrong, it gets reported.
ToddG,
Your track record does indeed speak for itself. Good to know there is a “pre-statement” to the manufacturer.
Thanks!
it would be tempting to act shifty, sweat a lot and develop a violent twitch when the UPS / FedEx person delivers it.
yeah one thing you can always count on is Todd being honest, brutally honest. I know, I’ve been on the receiving end of it……….”Dude, you own a Desert Eagle in .50AE?……”
lol
This is the newly appointed Ammo Tsar: I need your stash.
Hello Todd,
From the looks of it, there appears to be at least two different type of ammo pictured. I can’t quite make out what they are… Would you be so kind as to tell us all as to what you’ll be shooting for the next few months!!! :-):-):D
Todd,I have absolutely no problems with your objectivity having seen your “transparency” with the M&P Torture Test.
My only negative comment is that I hate you for having all that ammo..I’m the one who should have it.(Insert smilies here)
So he posts this picture here for us all to salivate over, then teases us with the same picture at M4C.
Todd, you are a bad, bad man.
Kevin — It’s 2,000 rounds of 124gr +p HST (P9HST3) and 48,000 rounds of American Eagle 115gr FMJ (FAAE9DP).
You bastard. [In a friendly way of course.]
To those that may suggest impropriety in the fact that a manufacturer gives Todd a gun and ammo to test it, this is no different than an automaker submitting a vehicle to “Car and Driver” for their testing and approval and springing for the gas. I’m not so certain about most print gun magazines. It’s hard to tell where the ads end and the articles begin.
Pistol-Training.com is an independent tester and has proven itself by shooting the M&P until it broke. While I’m sure S&W is thrilled with the results, it could have easily gone the other way.
I’m glad to see PT.com doing the H&K test as well. It goes to show that the M&P test was not a Smith and Wesson publicity stunt and that H&K has confidence in their product no matter what the results are.
Todd’s torture tests go to show that even with moderate use, it doesn’t take long for the cost of the ammo going through the gun to quickly exceed it’s cost by several factors. Which begs the question, why does anyone ever choose a gun because it’s “cheap”?
Geez, and I was excited when I finally got my hands on 200 rounds of HST 124gr +P. The two boxes I still have sitting on my desk here look awful lonely now. 😉
so there is 50,000 rounds there. does that mean you are going to start the test all over from the beginning when you get the pistol back? or with a different pistol?
Rob E – No, it just means we started the test before the ammo was available. So some of the ammo came from my personal supply and some came from the great folks at Atlanta Arms & Ammo.