From Kyle Defoor‘s blog:
Whoever chose this piece of shit to be issued to anyone- you’re an inexperienced pistol shooter who has no common sense. Hope you got a decent kickback from Blackhawk.
Train hard & stay safe! ToddG
From Kyle Defoor‘s blog:
Whoever chose this piece of shit to be issued to anyone- you’re an inexperienced pistol shooter who has no common sense. Hope you got a decent kickback from Blackhawk.
Train hard & stay safe! ToddG
Would anyone like to shoot next to a person with a Serpa mounted on their chest? I hear it’s a great way to cure a headache.
“It’s a training issue. You need to pratice with the holster” until they shoot themself. I am so glad I do not have anymore of those holsters. I have seen a lot of poeple on Youtube running them. They all say the same thing “It’s a training issue. You need to pratice with the holster” They might know something about a gun, but nothing about good quailty holsters and equipment. I never carried a serpa on duty, just off duty. It has always been a Safariland. Everytime I see a police officer carring a serpa, I shack my head and think, they don’t know any better, hopefully they will not shoot themselves.
Only if more approving authorities would actually do more research. My little brothers agency in Jacksonville just got approved to wear them or an Uncle Mikes. Freakin ridiculous! I was speechless!
Now Soldier Systems is reporting another recall on SERPAS and they’re offering free replacement holsters, too bad the replacements aren’t a different brand/model.
Kyle Defoor is Dabomb! He knows his stuff. It is a shame that a pioneer in the nylon gear world Blackhawk came up with and sells those crappy holsters. They should have stuck with nylon. I have seen so many of the buttons break and then if you were relying on that button to hold the gun in, well you just lost your gun.
Mr. Defoor is always dancing around with words, never getting straight to the thrust of his argument….
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So the SERPA is bad…right?
I was looking around at the crowd at one of the monthly IDPA club match I regularly attend. I was struck (read sick) when I realized just how many ppl use SERPAs. There were 80 shooters and just scanning the crowd under the shelter where I was standing I counted at least half dozen SERPAs, several for 1911s. YIKES!!!
I would like it noted NO ONE on my squad was using a SERPA.
How many of you have actually witnessed someone shooting themselves (or someone else) because of the holster, or have actually seen one fail in use? It seems that we are talking excessively about a few anecdotes and people are jumping on the bandwagon. If there are hundreds/thousands of shooters wearing SERPA holsters, and there have been very few incidents, it seems that there might be a bit of unfair amplification going on here.
It is an inexpensive product which should not be expected to perform as well as an expensive one. Consumers and departments buy Glocks because they are functional and inexpensive, the same criteria by which they select other things, like holsters.
For the purpose of practicing or playing, as long as the product is not itself unsafe, the market will decide (which you all are trying to influence.) By all means, discourage the use of something you think is unsafe, but remember that what actually is unsafe and what is thought of as unsafe are frequently not the same.
If you have reason to believe it is truly dangerous, talk to the US Consumer Product Safety Commission. If not, don’t get indignant when someone chooses to disagree with your view and chooses to wear one of these.
I don’t agree with all the guys who say that the blackhawk holsters are unsafe. The german army issues these holsters and I’ve never heared of any problems with it.
I know exactly what you think: ‘who is the german army, nobody cares about them, they got no combat experience and most of them are morons!’
I tell you what, you’re maybe right, BUT: how comes it that such a bunch of rookies are able to oparate the serpa holster without shooting themself in the leg?
it works because its simple and doesent require much practice.
I think its all about triggerfinger discipline and I used a chest mounted serpa myself and I was happy with it.
so don’t panic, serpas are not that bad.
cheers
I hate to ask , but what condition does the german army carry its pistol in ?? I know some armys like the israeli’s carry with chamber empty…..
the germans ??
No, we carry the secondary with a round in the chamber, decocked and usually with the safety engaged if you carry a p8. if you are lucky and issued a p8c, then only decocked, because there is no safety.
is it possible that the serpa problem only occurs with 1911’s?
I’ll skip the preamble of background experience, assume I’m practically a beginner.
I’ve used (but do not own) a serpa holster for an m9 and a Glock 22. Had no problem with it whatsoever, in fact the holster released more consistently than a lot of leather holsters I’ve used. That said, I always use the same form and hand position to draw, and invariably conduct drills with the holster on my right hip.
I have actually heard a lot more stories about morbid range mishaps associated with shoulder mounted or cross draw holsters, and I make it a point not to be around people shooting with these orientations, regardless of their choice of holster.
Anyway, as long as they’re in a sensible position on the hip (pointed at the ground, not the leg), I see no reason why anybody would consider them any less safe on the range than a cheap leather holster.
I would really like to see a sampling of the stories that indicate otherwise. I’d rather be healthy and wrong than ignorant and shot.
“How many of you have actually witnessed someone shooting themselves (or someone else) because of the holster, or have actually seen one fail in use?”
I’ve never seen someone shoot themselves, but I’ve seen half a dozen SERPAs fail in use. Most recently was at the SHOT Show, when Todd Jarrett ripped his SERPA off his belt while demonstrating a weak-hand-only draw.
It’s not just the dangerous placement of the locking mechanism that makes the SERPA crap, it’s the overall low quality and poor design.
-C
Please tell me why this post is not trolling?
John — “How many of you have actually witnessed someone shooting themselves (or someone else) because of the holster, or have actually seen one fail in use?”
I’ve not seen anyone pour grain alcohol all over his testicles and light them on fire, either. Nonetheless, I feel confident in saying it is an unsafe thing to do. If you disagree, please send me your address and I’ll happily pay for the grain alcohol and the matches as long as you promise to videotape the experiment. (offer void where prohibited by law)
Don’t you love freedom of choice? And the freedom to talk down about anything you personally don’t like. Just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean that it should be banned and whoever uses that product should be shot. How ridiculous. Maybe if the first poster tried to shoot someone that used a SERPA, maybe he himself should be shot.
All right, I saw some pics now of Serpas that got ripped off the belt and broke in a half!
This definately convinced me to step away from the serpa.
Imagine, your holster breaks because someone tries to grab your pistol. wasnĀ“t this whole lockingholsterthing invented to prevent losing your gun?
If you continue to use the non DUTY issue SERPA then yes, you could have issues. Hey, I’ve never witnessed anyone throw themselves off a tall building but I have seen more than a few stupid people shoot themselves over the years. Classic way is for the thumb break to get caught in the trigger guard of a Glock when reholstering: BOOM!
Anyone bitching about thumb breaks or isn’t that a training issue?? How about having the finger inside the trigger guard when reholstering: BOOM! Hey, keep yer booger hooker off the bang switch, training issue right??
I’m absolutely willing to bet a month’s pay that the above two situations have resulted in more unintentional self shooting incidents than have ever been recorded with the SERPA system but hey, don’t let reality get in the way of your fan boy adoration.
A legit complaint against the SERPA is that if the spring or button fails, your retention is gone. Equally, I have seen the SLS hood on Safariland holsters come loose or be ripped off so any holster can fail. If BH would make the spring/button user replaceable or the springs out of higher quality materials, this issue wouldn’t happen.
I carry a Level 3 SERPA on duty and will continue to do so having been using duty quality SERPA’s for over 6 years on duty and in 3 gun comps with ZERO issues. Fortunately, unlike some drones, I can make my own mind up about my gear and don’t feel the need to mindlessly drink the Kool Aid of any instructor, regardless of their background, however illustrious.
I’m certainly not saying that something is safe just because you haven’t seen it fail AND cause injury AS A RESULT.
My concern is that there have been very few reported incidents in a very large fleet of holsters, and the most high-profile example (Tex Grebner) was plainly not caused solely by the holster itself. My question to those here is simply to ask if they have personal experience, rather than repeating what they saw or heard on the internet. If twenty people repeat the same event, it is one incident, not twenty. This kind of amplification is not useful.
The most common plastic holsters are mass-produced and over time probably deteriorate, especially the paddle style. As with anything, they have a finite useful life, which is usually proportional to the initial cost. The next question is “do the manufacturers have a quality control problem that should be fixed, are the materials inferior, or is the design faulty?”
Maybe I should create a system safety analysis (maybe a failure modes and effects analysis) of the holster, which we could populate with real data. As it stands, based on the reports I have been able to find, the risk (that is combined probability and consequence) seems to me to be very low. For some people at play, those risks may be too high. For those in real situations, the question to be answered is “does the use of this device constitute an increased risk over using a different device?”, which can only be answered though thorough assessment of the options (various holsters and carry conditions) in consideration of the environment of use. It is likely that certain combinations of pistol, holster configurations, materials, and environmental conditions will be found to be unacceptable while others will probably show the SERPA to be safer than alternatives.
@ george:
I didnĀ“t knew that there are “duty” and “non duty” SERPAĀ“s.
How can you tell them apart?
I have no clue if the one I used was a duty holster, but it felt solid.
The German Army issued the Serpa for dubious reasons. The testing unit (Gruppe Weiterentwicklung)at Hammelburg Infantry School rejected the Serpas and voted for the solution presented by Safariland or the modified version of the Radar holster. The Serpa holster is a dangerous piece of shit that is fancied by a whole generation of young German soldiers for what they think is a cool look, that’s it.
Do you have any info concerning that modified radar holster?
There is a large portion of the US SOF community who were issued and still use the Blackhawk Serpa holster (Still being issued). In 8 yrs I’ve never seen a safety accident or incident with the Serpa. I have seen the hood on a safariland unlock and the pistol fall out and be run over by a truck. More likely to see accidents from lack of training than from equipment failure. Train with what you got. My 2 cents.
I had the displeasure of witnessing one of these Serpa incidents. Then I got to transport and spend several hours in the hospital with one of our shooters. Not a fun day!
This is the same whinny crap I heard from officers when the PD’s started enforcing the use of seat belts in cars on patrol. We won’t be able to draw from a seated position if we need to. Wah Wah Wah. If you don’t want to take the time to learn and adapt then stay with what you feel is most comfortable for you. If you don’t like the Serpa don’t use it. It has been proven time and time again to be a sound piece of equipment. Like your wife, if used improperly it too can be dangerous.
So if the holster is to blame, who’s to blame when it isn’t a Serpa and the shooter ND’s into his leg? Just saying. Oh, by the way, a guy on the range yesterday shot himself in the leg drawing from a Serpa. The bullet glanced off his pocket knife. I heard it was a Benchmade.
I have a serpa i use for my 1911 i use for idpa, i always thought the double retention by depressing the index finger is a bad idea, never got used to it, my brain always tells me not to use the index until the gun is full drawn onto target which becomes a handicap in terms of speed. My plan to take or saw this out is further accelerated by this thread. Thanks guys!
The serpa is the only holster I know of that is subject to self-inflicted GSWs on the draw…you know, when you really need the gun in a hurry, and are most prone to mistakes.
ND’s while reholstering are a differnet story. Reholstering isn’t something that generally needs to be done in a hurry.
Serpa aside, how do we all feel about something like the Sig Sauer paddle holster? Personally i like the release, and I feel that it places the finger in a relatively good spot on the slide. I don’t carry one regularly (a galco leather holster placed in the small of my back is much more comfortable) But I like the concept for retention on the range or open carry.
Having been in a life or death shootout while wearing a Serpa holster I can say that I did not shoot myself. I was ambushed and shot 4 times by an assault rifle before I had a chance to draw. No mis-hap, no AD, just me drawing my gun and putting bullets in the bad guy. BTW this was 3 days after I bought said holster. It’s a common sense holster so if you lack common sense, don’t buy one.
I note several people saying something to the effect of “The Serpa would be fine if it wasn’t made out of crappy materials/if the spring didn’t break leaving the holster with zero retention/if the holsters didn’t break when attacked/etc.
Outside of the trigger finger debate the fact is that these holsters DO break a lot, and ARE made out of crappy materials, they DO fall apart when attacked.
I have first-hand seen these issues with both the “off-duty” and uniform duty versions of the Serpa. I also carried both styles of holster for three years, both on and off-duty, before coming to my opinion.
“The Serpa wouldn’t suck if it didn’t suck” is pretty weak.