Yesterday, this space was taken up by a long explanation of the unfortunate events that led to one of the administrators at M4Carbine.net deciding to delete dozens of class reviews (“AARs”) that students had written about pistol-training.com classes on that forum.
It was cathartic to get my side of the story out in front of everyone finally, and I genuinely appreciate all the support and offers of assistance that I received. Whether it was comments here, the two dozen phone calls I got (how did some of you even get my cell number?!?) or the avalanche of emails, every one of them reminded me what a great community this is, and that most of the people in it are honest, hard working, and loyal.
Having said that, I chose to edit this post simply because I do not want to be the one to leave a gaping open wound in public. What’s done is done. While I’m sure this ridiculous “feud” will continue on their part, pistol-training.com has more important and more interesting things to do.
The people most disrespected by all of this, of course, have been the students who wrote those AARs at M4Carbine. From industry professionals to moderators and countless everyday members, their thoughts and opinions were erased without warning or permission. To them, I genuinely apologize. I know from personal experience the time and effort that people put into writing AARs, and having them washed away due to someone’s personal vendetta is inexcusable. Your efforts — and gracious comments — were very much appreciated, and I am sorry that you were somehow dragged into this silliness.
Luckily, with half a dozen classes scheduled over the next few months, new AARs posted on other sites should be available soon. We’ll also be updating the Classes page soon to list only those AARs at sites which haven’t been affected by this silly “feud.”
Once again, apologies for this unfortunate distraction from the normal pistol-training.com program.
Train hard & stay safe! ToddG
Wow. I’m sorry you’ve had to go through this silliness. As if there’s not enough room for both of you guys in the training world. I wondered why you disappeared from M4C…
Keep plugging along, the truth will come out and in the end he will hurt himself.
I haven’t attended a class from you, but would like to someday. Especially after seeing you handle a problem like this. The high road is never easy to take, but I appreciate the effort.
Maybe you can host the AAR’s on your url as well as elsewhere to guard against things like this? Seems a waste to the authors effort, and your hard work in earning it to let them go.
That’s nuts. Why do the other M4Carbine admins put up with this?
Guys — While I genuinely appreciate everyone’s support and kind words, I’d ask that we keep M4C and its staff out of this. Unless someone from there says otherwise, this wasn’t an official act planned by the owner of M4C or endorsed by the staff of M4C. Many of those people are friends of mine.
Furthermore, M4C is a private business and has every right to decide what does and doesn’t get posted on its website. I wouldn’t want anyone dictating what I have to post or what I can or cannot delete here, either.
The purpose of my post was simply to point out what happened, and why, to shed light on something that has been festering in the dark for far too long.
Wow, thats silly!
@Todd
It´s good to know what happens. Keep up the good work!
Frank
Its about time you told everyone what has been going on. Your professionalism always impresses me. Unlike some of your competitors.
I’m going to guess this individual won’t be listed in your “Looking Back” series? Lol
Seriously dude, that sucks. Let’s hope things get sorted in the New Year.
What kind of company hires an ass hole like that?
?????? WOW…..cant we all just get along!
M4carbine is one of the few internet boards I frequent, and I really enjoyed your contributions there. I had wondered about your sudden departure from there, and I am glad to finally hear why. I hope the hatchet can be buried someday and you can return to that site.
Isn’t this anticompetitive practice?
Dude seems to be acting like serious wanker.
Weak sauce.
I’ve never joined M4carbine mainly because it seems more like a place for those who are either professionals or know way more about this industry than I do or ever will.
I’m also not a regular reader of the forum over there so I didn’t see any of the stuff this entry addresses but it is a bit disappointing to see something like that is allowed to take place.
I’m still a complete newb when it comes to most of this stuff but I can honestly say without any doubt most of the real usable information I have gathered so far has come from either pistol-training.com or from Todd on another board I used to visit.
Seems like more their loss than his if they deleted his account, he obviously has a lot to offer.
all I can say is, what a wanker… and I know you don’t want to blame the owner of m4c but they do set the policies of the board, and in my mind are equally guilty. Even more so if they did not contact you and apologize for the acts of the moderator and offer you his head on a silver platter.
Wondered why you were no longer a member there. You were a moderator yourself right? How’d you get kicked off by another mod without a “super” moderator noticing and tacitly approving. Just sayin ….
Well, as a fairly longtime member of M4C, this irritates me not because the site or general admins did it, but because it isn’t getting corrected. Keep us posted.
N
The main reason I started reading the M4C forums was to read your posts. I was wondering what happened with your login change/disappearing act. Also pretty shocked that M4C lets crap like this happen!
I always wondered what happened to you on M4C. I always enjoyed your posts like everyone else. I think it’s ridiculous the owner of the board hasn’t done something about it. I haven’t enjoyed the site as much since your departure. Maybe someone should delete his account. You’ve handled the situation professionally.
A forum is only as good as the mods and people that post. Losing an experienced shooter like you with the knowledge and ability to express yourself via the keyboard is hard to find. Maybe someday the situation can be figured out because M4c is lacking a piece of the puzzle without you.
I am somewhat busy right now at work and I can’t put a very coherent thought, but this bs needs to end. I wonder if some pressure needs to be applied by students who formerly trained with Todd and GGT. I would be highly surprised that such actions are driven by Grey Group as a company; it seems like they are due “personal efforts” of single employee.
I know that some of instructors that represent prime attraction to GGT class schedule are your friends or good acquaintances, Todd, and perhaps they are in better position to provide corrective measures. I am personally not above dropping GGT a line stating my disappointment, if that would be helpful. I’ve trained with Josh B., who seemed like a reasonable guy who’d be aversive to any divisive moves in the community.
May the fleas of a thousand camels infest his armpits.
I was wondering what happened to you over on m4c; it’s too bad the guy decided to be a jerk rather than just man up and speak with you directly. Has anyone checked to make sure the ‘guy’ doesn’t actually have a vagina?
Talk about an ND in one’s own face. Extremely disappointing and unprofessional. I have found tremendous value in the after-action reports left by fellow students – they certainly helped me decide where I was going to invest in my training and will continue to do so in the future. The idea that an individual would remove an asset to the training community does far more to discredit himself and his organization than just about any other action.
Keep up the fantastic job, Todd – you are a true asset to the Training Community and I look forward to learning from you at every opportunity.
Cordially,
Pk
The pool of serious paying students is not that large and VERY internet savvy. I see a LOT of the same faces in classes from Colorado to Tennessee. One thing the majority of students and instructors have is integrity.
I don’t see these kinds of antics playing well with guys like Vickers and Howe.
I’m sure this will be a self correcting issue once word spreads.
You’d think you and this guy could settle it with a shooting match (on targets!). I’m sure we could rustle up some watchers.
It’s fairly obvious that the owner of M4C tacitly condones suc lack of integrity on the part of his moderators.
Well… GGT isn’t getting my $$$, sucks actually, was really hoping to take an upcoming Hackathorn class I saw posted on FT&T and also seems that wanker reps a few other guys who I’ve wanted to attend classes from.
Doubt losing my $2K or so in class fees over the next year will probably do much to get some of the trainers being represented by this guy to question who they’re aligning themselves with, but sure hope it helps get the ball rolling…
This isn’t that dissimilar to some of the nonsense I see now and again from my 11-year-old and his xbox-live buddies, pretty sad.
Hope to see you at one or more P-T.com classes in 2011.
Well I was out of townwithout an internet connection, so while I still don’t know exactly who or what happened over at M4C, I will repeat what I posted before wich is that I miss you input over there. Anything that is unprofessional should be dealt with by the owners. I will still continue to look here for very valuable info and hopefullly will get my own PT coin in the near future!!
ChipK — I appreciate the sentiment and the great show of support, but if I could, let me offer some counsel here.
If you skip a class just because it was run under the GGT banner, who suffers the most? You do. You lose out on training from one of the best instructors in the world. You probably weren’t signing up for fun, you felt like this class could teach and hone skills that may some day matter to you or a loved one in a life-or-death situation. Is their well being worth more than this silly squabble? Absolutely.
Second, the instructor suffers because it is money out of his pocket. If anything, that plays right into the hands of certain people who are trying to drive a wedge between me and those instructors.
You and all the others who visit this page do so because we share a common passion about training. Don’t let a bunch of junior high school drama distract you from that. Five years from now, no one will remember any of this silliness but you may not have a chance to take a class from some of these guys anymore. Put your training first.
If the only way I could take a class from one of those guys was to attend a GGT class, I would go without hesitation. The quality of their instruction outweighs all the internet drama in the world.
And I hope to see you in class in 2011, too, Chip!
Train hard & stay safe! ToddG
“Put your training first.”
Pure. Class.
I had a football coach one time that taught in a different school than ours. Old coaches (that sucked never coached a winning program in school history) that were our teachers were giving us the business (we were 7-2) about our play, game plan, training etc. Our Coach’s response was “Opinions are like a-holes, everyone has one. Go practice and let’s win this Friday.”
Crap. Haven’t been here in a bit so I missed out on all the drama.
I think Todd’s post to ChipK says it all. In spite of what ever went on, I missed it so have no clue 🙁 , Todd’s post is all class.
Sorry you had to deal with this BS. Keep up the good work.