Which Do You Like Better?
A couple of weeks ago, ToddG let me shoot his P30 test gun and backup gun. Since I currently shoot an M&P9, Todd asked me to write down my thoughts comparing the P30 to the M&P9.
Ergonomically, I didn’t really notice a big difference between the two guns. The P30’s grip is more adjustable, and I liked its more aggressive grip texture. The most noticeable ergonomic difference was the location of the controls. I really like the controls on the P30; it is the only pistol that I can reach all of the controls without shifting my grip. I was worried that my high thumbs forward grip would interfere with the slide release lever, and it did on the first magazine I fired through the gun. After talking with Todd about how he changed his grip, I angled my support thumb down slightly and never had another problem with the slide not locking back in over three hundred rounds. My only problem with the P30’s ergonomics was the trough in the trigger guard; it had my finger seeping blood after only two short practice sessions.
I shot the P30s for two sessions, shooting a little over three hundred rounds, with about one hundred fifty rounds fired through each gun. The test gun was shot first in a short fam-fire session, and the next day I shot the backup gun in a direct comparison test with my M&P. Custom Carry Concepts Appendix Looper holsters were used for both guns. To compare the guns the F.A.S.T. test was used. First I shot the F.A.S.T. with my M&P. Then after a short practice session with the P30, I re-shot the F.A.S.T. It took me about two hundred and fifty rounds to acclimate to the L.E.M. trigger. If I had only fired a couple of rounds through the P30, I would definitely not have considered it as a viable replacement for my M&P. Slow fire was not an issue as I was able to shoot the P30 more accurately than my M&P, but initially I had problems with any drill that required a high degree of accuracy at speed. Although it took some time to get used to, I really like the V4 trigger. The reset is a little longer than the M&P, but the pull is smooth with a very good break. After a relatively short time with the P30, I was able to shoot it almost as well as my M&P. The M&P’s biggest advantage for the F.A.S.T. was split times on the eight-inch circle. On the faster runs with the P30 I did everything else faster than with my M&P, but my splits were more than a tenth slower. I think this was just my unfamiliarity with the longer reset, and with more practice (500-1000 rounds) my splits would drop down to a similar speed.
M&P F.A.S.T. 1: 6.92 (clean)
M&P F.A.S.T. 2: 6.89 (clean)
P30 F.A.S.T. 1: 10.72 (clean)
P30 F.A.S.T. 2: 8.60 (clean)
P30 F.A.S.T. 3: 6.79 (-1H)
P30 F.A.S.T. 4: 7.33 (clean)
The P30 is more expensive, magazines and spare parts are more difficult (if not impossible) to find, Crimson Trace does not make a Lasergrip for it, and I don’t shoot it as well as the M&P, but I still think that for me the P30 is a better gun. For carry in the appendix position, I really like having a hammer to prevent any possibility of the trigger being pulled while holstering. If I didn’t carry A.I.W.B., or if I was more comfortable carrying a striker-fired gun appendix carry, I would stick with the M&P. It’s easier for me to shoot well, less expensive, and has a lot more support.
Thanks to ToddG for letting me shoot his P30s. Sorry if I got any blood on your gun, dude.
by joshs
Interesting that the choice of what gun was “better” for you was not the result of how they felt ergonomically, how they shot, the slight variation in grip angles, the position of any particular control, accuracy, felt recoil, trigger feel, or score results.
Rather, the “better” gun was a function of how you carry and your comfort/discomfort with a hammer-fired gun versus a striker-fired gun without an external safety.
I wonder if your conclusion would be any different if your M&P had the external safety.
Thanks for putting the article online,pretty surprising choice I was sure that the M&P would come out on top.
Dennis, I would be more comfortable carrying the M&P A.I.W.B. with an external safety, but I don’t like external safeties on a pistol.
JD, technically the M&P did come out on top, at least numbers wise. The P30 is just my preference for a very specific purpose.
“technically the M&P did come out on top, at least numbers wise. The P30 is just my preference for a very specific purpose.”
Well said.
I purchased the P30 myself, though in Variation 3. Wanting a hammer-fired weapon was one of the leading criteria both for carrying in a Smart Carry or carrying it in a shoulder bag or pack. I still can’t find a particularly good reason that the gun is worth what it costs, but it does meet the criteria of what I wanted.
Like yourself joshs, I find that the P30 really takes extra practice time to shoot well. It’s not a “natural shooter” as Ayoob would say. Though accuracy is similar resting off of a bench between my P229 357sig and P30, shooting off hand provides very dissimilar results.
I can still shoot very tight groups with the P229 off hand. No so with the P30. The groups are only “acceptable,” and it took practice to reach acceptable. I nearly traded it for a SP2022 this weekend.
My experience with the P30 is pretty similar to yours. I was initially slower with the P30, coming from the M&P Pro; however, after several hundred rounds I am now as proficient if not quicker with my P30 V3. My reloads are definitely quicker and I really like the ability to reload without shifting my grip. That really decreases my scores when running competitive stages.
Thanks Pistol Training crew for always keeping us informed with all this interesting data, waiting for the 13 week data on the P30. The ¨Unfun stuff¨post very good also, gracias ToodG.
Interesting… Seems to me this article could be just as much about what is more “comfortable/safer” regarding appendix carry than an actual gun to gun comparison… Guess if I carried appendix I might prefer the P30 too… or maybe I might just get a hold of an M&P with a thumb safety…
The thing that gets me is that it would seem to me that it would take far less training to get used to sweeping off an external thumb safety equipped M&P than it would to get used to the many idiosyncrasies that have to be learned with the P30.
As a previous poster mentioned, I too could not find a reason to justify the P30’s inflated pricetag, and thus I sold mine away… Seems for whatever reason H&K always gets a pass when it comes to their offerings, whether it’s based on their build quality or simple name recognition I don’t know… but always seems an H&K will get the benifit of the doubt when a lesser name would not.
Objectively, from my experience and from the article, sounds like H&K needs work on the trigger reset, trigger guard, and slide release position…
Maybe P30.1 anyone?
Dennis, just for clarification I was able to shoot groups with the P30 offhand as well as I can with my M&P. When I shot faster was where I ran into problems.
Chip, sorry you felt the article was about the better gun for appendix carry, I only included that in the last paragraph to explain why I thought the P30 was better for me. I agree with you that the trough in the trigger guard is pretty annoying, but I like the trigger and slide release. I can reach the slide release with my strong hand thumb without shifting my grip, and I didn’t have any problems with the slide failing to lock back. As far as the trigger reset goes I only have experience with the V4, but I prefer it to the stock M&P trigger. I’d rather deal with the P30’s longer reset than the weak and indistinct reset of the M&P.
“technically the M&P did come out on top, at least numbers wise. The P30 is just my preference for a very specific purpose.”
Interesting. When you are comparing it to the M&P, are you comparing it to the full-size M&P? I had recently concluded that I was going to pass on the P30 and go with a M&P 9mm compact instead, mainly due to price. Then I went to the gun store and after looking at the M&Ps realized that they only had the full-size and the compact, but the compact is almost a sub-compact it is so small. Coming from a USP, I have realized I like the USPs size. I don’t want something smaller and I don’t want something much bigger either. Can you comment on the size of the M&P compared to the P30 and how that affects or doesn’t affect its carryability?
Thanks.
Randy, the M&P used in the comparison was a full-size. The biggest size difference between the P30 and M&PFS is slide (and barrel) length, about half an inch. For me this doesn’t really affect carry-ability. The P30 is a tenth of an inch shorter, and the M&P is a tenth narrower, so around the same basic size. I have no experience carrying the P30 on a day to day basis, but I have no problem concealing the M&PFS. For reference I’m 5’7″ and 145lbs.
Regardng appendix carry striker fired guns: why not just leave gun in the holster at all times while inserting and removing holster. Then train with an apendix OWB holster at the range so its safer?
If memory serves me correct you have an M&P with Warren Tacts and a P30 with Heinie. Which sights do you like better. I have warren tact 2 dot nights and have put well over 400 rounds through and I cannot shot them very accurately as for the quick acquisition that is completely gone because I am trying to tighten my group up shooting the warrens which completely sacrifice my speed. Personally I shot the novak factory white 3 dots far better. Let me know, I want a night sight but the 3 dot night sights from novak and bowie get lost in the range trying to find the front dot. Once again let me know what you think Joshs. I am having a complete sightmare!!! Thanks
Josh,
Thanks for your response. I currently carry a USPc and really like the size, but had decided to go to something with a more ergonomic and smaller grip. I was pretty much sold on the M&P compact based on price and what I have read about them, but then got to hold one and realized it was really sub-compact sized, at least that’s what it felt like to me. I borrowed a friend’s full size M&P, but it was just too big for me to carry comfortably. I ended up deciding on a p2000.
P30man, I’m still appendix carrying the M&P, I’m just really careful while holstering. I don’t think practicing with a different holster is a good alternative because of the small difference in location.
Erik,
Most of my shooting with the P30 was with the backup gun, which has similar sights to the stock M&P. If I’m shooting only for group size with no time pressure, I can shoot sights with a wide front post and narrow rear notch(like the stock M&P sights) more accurately than narrow post, wide notch sights. At any thing approaching shooting fast this advantage disappears, and I much prefer the Warrens.
I love this site. I just purchased a .45 magnum and will be reviewing this site for proper training.
I found myself shooting the M&P better as well, granted it was the M&P9L ( long ).
I’m stuck deciding:
M&P 9mm or P30
I’m not even sure if that’s a fair comparison, being the one I shot was the long variation…
Do you still shoot the M&P better after training with the P30 more?
JRas, no, I shoot the P30 better than I ever shot the M&P. Whether that is a function of becoming more familiar with the P30 or my improving as a shooter over time, I’m not sure. Most likely, it is both.
Hey Josh, just outta curious, if you know it was literally impossibly to get any sort of spare parts no matter how minor, would you still consider the P30?
I’m asking because I was considering a P30 but then from what I gathered: HKUSA will not ship anything to Canada (not a spring, not a screw, not even a replacement manual). HK GMBH is the same story. Canadian dealers do try but last I heard it’s a 6 to 10 month wait time for ordering ANY HK part (yeah, HK really does think Canada sucks).
I wouldn’t consider owning any firearm, at least one that I planned on shooting, if I couldn’t get spare parts. However, I would personally confirm with HK USA and GMBH that you cannot get spare parts in Canada.
HKUSA is for sure won’t send anything to Canada. From what I understood from talking to the rep HKUSA is expressly forbidden from exporting anything by it’s parent company HK-GMBH. More to the point HKUSA is not on the DDTC registered factory list and therefore cannot legally export under ITAR anyways.
AS for HKGMBH they’ve basically said they don’t deal directly with foreign customers. If I wanted parts I’d have to contact their exclusive distributor in Canada, which is R. Nicholls. Unfortunately R.Nicholls is possibly the only gun distributor in the world I know of that is against the private ownership of guns and therefore will not sell anything to individuals, they’ll only sell to dealers, LE, and MIL.
The dealers can try but from what I understand R.Nicholls only does semi annual shipments from there. Dealer can’t just order one part either, I think they need to make a large bulk order (100+ units) before R.Nicholls will do it, so understandably none of the dealers area eager to try.
It’s the reason why I went with a sig instead instead of the P30L (If the distributor can’t get your part in time you can still order it through Brownells with some difficulty).