To all of the in-your-face tough guy Open Carry zealots who held Starbucks rallies such as the one pictured here, thanks.
Thanks for forcing a major, high profile international corporation into choosing between its image and yours.
Thanks for making such complete idiots of yourselves with your “Look Ma, I’ve got a gun and a coffee at the same time!” antics that what had been a nice political win for our side is now a huge media circus about how Starbucks finally said stop bringing guns into our stores.
You can croon about how you’re educating the public all you want, but it’s bullcrap. And here’s a perfect example. Did you convert the average American? No. But you scared enough soccer moms, kids, and coffee jockeys that Starbucks was forced to take action.
It was you that turned Starbucks into a political battleground. It was you that couldn’t just take the victory of Starbucks saying it would abide by local laws rather than ban guns. It was you who had to push the limits and do things utterly unacceptable among almost any normal community in the United States just so you could brag to your equally moronic Facetwit buddies. You did this. You gave the entire Second Amendment movement a huge black eye. You just educated America, all right, you educated them into believing that gun owners are a bunch of retarded monkeys who’ll throw feces the first chance they get if it’s legalized.
Do you know what would happen if you walked into the NRA Headquarter Range carrying a gun like the guys pictured above? You’d be refused entrance because they don’t allow people to walk around like that. Know what would happen if you, a stranger, walked up to my front door carrying a shotgun like this guy:
At a bare minimum you’d have a gun pointed at your face and police sirens closing in at top speed. Worst case scenario, you’d get shot dead. You know why? Because in suburban America, normal people don’t walk around carrying rifles and shotguns. Period.
Go tattoo your forehead or get your eyeballs pierced if you want to be cool & different & edgy. Stop carrying guns or talking about guns or even thinking about guns. Because you’re idiots, and you’re not helping.
(for a less angry, more in-depth intelligent read on the subject, try Sebastian at Shall Not Be Questioned)
Train hard & be smart for once in your God-forsaken life! ToddG
original rifles in front of Starbucks photo from NBC affiliate KXAN
shotgun photo from thenewcivilrightsmovement.com (edited to add: per the shotgun-wielding gentleman in the photo above via practicaltacticalpodcast.com via Tam, that particular Starbucks is in fact in Kuwait circa 2005 … so no harm no foul, buddy, but thanks for giving me a photo to riff off of)
Amen.
What’s that old saying? With friends like these…
It’s time for normal people to stand up to the in your face and ignorant open carry crowd. They are accomplishing nothing; they are making things worse. It used to be in CA you could OC an unloaded gun on your belt…. So all these internet Constitutional scholars started traipsing around and videoing confrontation with cops..trying ot educate them and the public. Guess what; in CA you can’t carry an unloaded gun on your belt anymore.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Word.
Betcha neither one of those yahoos put any rounds downrange in training or practice.
As it turns out, the guy with the shotgun claims his picture was taken in a Starbucks in Camp Arifjan, Kuwait in 2005 so you might want to put that thing back in your purse. 😉
But, yeah, I see nothing to disagree with in this post.
Todd;
If you have an opinion on the subject,don’t beat around the bush…just come out and sat it!!!!!!!!!
P.S. I agree with you totally.
Tam — Thanks.
Fish — Oh I’ll sat it all right! I’ll sat it loud and clear! 😎
I hope I got points for referencing the best Archer episode ever, is all.
Amen, brother!
These morons can’t have friends. Who associates with fecal flinging primates who don’t have the common sense or courtesy to not be a flaming douche bag of fail?
Can and Should are mutually exclusive sometimes.
Asshats!
If I walked into a store and saw someone carrying a shotgun like that guy, I would think he was in the midst of commiting a crime.
You show me yours, I’ll show you mine isn’t for guns in public.
Showing your gun in public is like walking around in your underwear.It may be legal,but don’t he surprised if everyone around you thinks you’re crazy.
Work of art right here Todd!
It s to bad that some firearms owners are our worst enemy. I also think we should tone down things that’s on gun channel. Do we really need to use words like tactical or showing what takes place during a carbine class.
Don’t get me wrong I’m all for it . I m just worried it can or could be used against us someday.
There are gun nuts and then there are idiots with guns.
Very well put together Todd. Thanks!
yep, very well stated……
May I share this and link this for the world to see? It is like a beacon of hope saving the lost from crashing upon the rocks.
All of the above, and some peoples’ mamas never should have let them out if the house…
Just because it is legal, doesn’t make it the smart or right thing to do. No common sense. There is a time and place for everything, that’s where common sense comes into play.
I’m not involved with the open carry movement, and really my philosophy is along the lines of the guy Greg quoted who said he supports the right, but not the practice. Since i am not in the open carry movement and in fact I generally ignore it, I don’t know what really happened that led them to piss off the Starbucks people enough for the rules to be changed by Starbucks corporate. Like many of you, I wonder how the open carry people could have been so bone-headed. But you know what? Maybe they (i.e., the open carry people) were not the ones that pushed this to the point of people showing up with rifles to their local Starbucks store. Maybe the movement got co-opted by outsiders who were intentionally “joining in” specifically to drive away the support of the gun establishment (trainers, gun writers, the concealed carry folks like many of us, etc).
Professional, paid agitators can take over a movement and radicalize the direction of the movement. This pushes the movement out of the mainstream and reduces its support amongst the populace and particularly amongst natural (former) allies. This is how (many of us believe) that the authorities finally put an end to the anti-globalization movement that was doing all the picketing, dressing up as trees, protesting, and making it generally difficult and expensive to hold international business meetings and government conferences. The movement was (many of us believe) infiltrated on purpose by professional agitators who then proceeded to radicalize the movement, pushing for violence and property destruction, etc. the more violent that those demonstrations became, the less likely it was that casual protestors or people who were dedicated but peaceful would even bother to show up. Eventually, the whole movement fell apart as the mainstream anti-globalization folks (if I can use that descriptive phrase) abandoned their own movement so as not to be associated with the radicals. Now, go back to what I just described and replace “anti-globalization” with “open carry” and you will get the idea. I don’t have any specific knowledge to back up my theory, but let me just put it this way: If I was Mike Bloombucks, I would be a fool NOT to hire people to do exactly what I just described to throw the whole gun carrying movement onto its butt.
– See more at: http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/friends-dont-let-friends-open-carry#comments
So let me get this straight you guys just want to wait around for our rights to come back?? Texas hasn’t had open carry since the 1800’s I think the waiting around method is proven to not work. Either your for the second amendment or your not! Free men don’t ask for permission to carry and I don’t believe in giving up some of my rights so that I can conceal carry! Those of you that don’t support everyone’s right to carry however they want to might as well be kissing Obama’s ass! Either stand up or sit down and shut up while real men fight for our rights!
If you people were smart enough you would know it has way less to do with what open carriers did and more about what groups like moms demand action did! They are the ones organizing boycotts of Starbucks and constantly bullying the corporation to ban guns in their stores even concealed carry! Who are you guys going to blame when conceal carry becomes illegal because of the far lefts relentless pursuit to get guns banned? I’m amazed at how easy you guys cower to the left and government.
I never understood the OC movement. In CA, you could OC with no bullets in the gun….it didn’t make since to me, carry an unloaded gun???? Even to make a statement??? I was told from a young age, if you are going to carry a gun, carry it loaded and make user you are ready to use it if you draw your gun on someone. Not carry an empty gun and bet them with it lol The OC group forced CA to change the laws because the would film the contacts with police and acted like retards, then post them. They are not the brights bunch. You said it best Todd.
I’m sorry but California residents are asleep at the wheel and if anyone shouldn’t be able to even speak about guns it’s you folks! You guys let politicians rape you year after year after year! Wake the F up! I say this not to attack people but damn! when are you guys going to stand your ground! How the F does Dianne Feinstein keep getting reelected!!!!!
Well said Todd, once again.
It was the constant and relentless pressure of the “moms demand” group of nut-jobs fueled with emotional fiction that caused this….. not the open carry guys…
know thy enemy ….. its not the people that open carry………….
Ugh!
A gun on the hip or over the shoulder is a show of force. Just like sending aircraft carrier groups into a specific ocean is also a show of force, whether or not jets bomb or not. Military and cops show guns to let everyone know the have the means and willingness to use them if necessary.
I’m all for an armed citizenry. And when necessary, a display of that armament.
But let’s not play BS games. Concealed carry doesn’t make you any LESS armed than open carry. And I have yet to see any reason for the average citizen to display a weapon in full public view without a clear and present danger. I believe the first and second rule of “Fight Club” should be applied to carried firearms. For obvious reasons!
So cut the crap. Be intelligent and reasonable. And practice some of the “Golden Rule”. If you don’t anyone brandishing weapons at your place, don’t do it at theirs.
Jason — “Know they enemy.”
I do, thank you. My enemy is anyone who screws up my rights. The liberal anti-gunner who wants to destroy my rights is my enemy. So is the radicalized open carry extremist who is more interested in “making a statement” by showing off his AK47 at Starbucks than powering up one brain cell to consider what the real world impact of his actions might be.
It was the OC people who planted a flag and declared Starbucks their territory. That an anti-gun group formed and protested shouldn’t surprise anyone. My wife made the point tonight that if she — as a gun owner and shooter — walked into a Starbucks and saw a bunch of strangers carrying rifles, *she* would turn around and leave.
You can tell yourselves whatever you want. In my view, you’re doing nothing but giving the entire RKBA movement a bad image.
Mike…. in the middle of summer when you have your LCP hidden in your pocket and I have my G23 on my side………. explain how CC don’t make you any LESS armed…….next
Only person to blame for you losing your rights is yourself by sitting back and begging for them! Free men don’t ask permission! Grow a back bone!
Jason — Perhaps you should read at least a few things here before jumping to conclusions. While you were wearing your G23 on your side, I was carrying an HK45 or G17 or M&P9 of full size 1911 concealed, all year round, all around the country, in all kinds of weather.
You’re barking up the wrong tree if you think the average reader here EDCs a pocket pistol.
Justin — I don’t know if you’re a very excitable 17 year old or a troll, but either way, you’re not impressing anyone with your silliness.
I thought I was coming to a 2a page but it did not take long to figure out I was mistaken. Wow! Im amazed more and more how weak supposed 2a people are. Being told what they can and cant do and worried about hurting the libs (many claim to be 2a) feelings. This group here knows nothing about liberty and freedom. Since win to free men ask permission? If you do not want to open carry that is your business. But as for me and my house… we will. And you have no right to tell me I cannot. I could care less what Starbucks does. They are a private business and can do what they want. That is the beauty of freedom and liberty. I suggest you take your whining to msnbc because that is where you belong. As for true patriots and those that will not relinquish their liberty… Carry on!
Well your certainly didn’t have much of a response so you must agree that you cowering down waiting for your master to grant you your rights isn’t working.
Amen open carry preacher!!
Todd who planted a flag?…. the MDA group started boycotting Starbucks and in response the “gun” crowd (nationally) came to fill in the blanks……… your emotional fiction RANT shows your ignorance of the truth of the matter.
BTW… the pic with the guy packing the .58cal black powder… that was in Austin TX at a pro-gun rally @ the capital. Last Friday. They went down to SB and had 1-2 pissy ass comments about it and about 30 in support from the people there… (fyi)
Jason, I am at about 1.7 sec from concealment on 3×5 card at 21 feet with HK P30, all record-hot summer long, and without putting myself on every criminal’s shoot me first list. Next.
AND it don’t matter what you CC….. the OC of a AK or AR trumps them all in effectiveness…. How in the heck could someone that is all about “effectiveness” forget the basic rule…. “a handgun is just a means to get to your rifle”
Your logic is stupid in a society where everyone is armed YK!
most of our group also cc’s to …. for backup
Jason — It’s not a chicken & egg problem. Let’s agree that Starbucks is unhappy with BOTH the OC groups and Moms groups for turning their stores into a political battleground. The difference is that the Moms weren’t scaring people away, and the national media isn’t reporting that the Moms were told to stop coming to the store… No, Starbucks’ response was to tell ALL of us to stop bringing guns onto their property.
Rather than assume that we’re all just cowards who don’t really believe in the Second Amendment, perhaps the more radical OC crowd needs to shut up and listen for a second. There are a lot of us who work hard, put our money where our mouths are, and vote religiously on the RKBA issue. And *WE* are saying the in-your-face OC actions are bad. When both the pro- and anti-gun folks all agree you’re a problem, how hard is it to re-examine your stance and consider that maybe, just maybe, you’re not having the positive effect you want to have?
The fact that folks are coming on here and attacking me & the regular readers as being wimps, liberals, etc. is just proof of how fractured you are from the mainstream RKBA movement.
Mr. YK makes the same ol’ blah blah blah… it makes you a target if you OC bunch of cow dung non-factual, emotionally weak, non-factual statement. Ummm… yeah…there are only like 7 states or so that don’t have OC. HUH? And the OCers are still alive? Oh wait… who cares about facts
for the record… all the pic’s that you “acquire” from the internet of guys posing for a photograph…. are just that… posing…. no one walks around OC in “the ready” position…. no one in our group anyways. I hope that your emotionally fiction filled cup is not to full for me to add some truth and fact into it….
We ( the OC supporters) are NOT the gun rights enemy’s… Freedom gives YOU the right to choose to CC and US the right to OC (or CC if we please)
how would you feel if I said you can take the first amendment protected right that allows you to rant on and make a post like this original one…. and conceal it cause I don’t want to hear it………..
moms was holding protests outside telling folks not to enter because someone with a CC gun may be in there…fact
ToddG you guys aren’t a movement you are stagnant that is the reason we have lost so many rights already! We are not going to sit back and wait for our rights to be granted to US when we believe we were born with them! Your way of doing things has only gone in the direction that we don’t want to go we have history to show the proof of that! We believe in educating the public and in showing people that we are nothing to be afraid of! We are not ashamed to be gun owners and we refuse to act like we are!
How in the heck is exercising a right a “in your face” statement?
again… emotional fiction
Jason — If you’re not one of the idiots who was posing for cameras and bringing long guns to Starbucks, then my original post isn’t directed at you to begin with, is it?
Nowhere did I say OC should be outlawed. Nowhere in this discussion have I said people shouldn’t OC. What I’ve said, and what I maintain, is that when the manner in which alleged “gun rights activists” present themselves to the general public raises more alarm than awareness, they’ve hurt the RKBA movement.
How you carry your gun doesn’t matter one whit to me.
Justin — If your contention was true, gun laws would be on the rise. Instead in the past few years we’ve had Heller and McDonald, plus the utter failure of new gun control measures to make it even to the floor of Congress for a vote. Concealed carry continues to grow to more states. I’d say that’s progress.
As usual, it’s the ones who think they’re the only “True Believers” who tend to be the radical extremists who screw things up for the rest of us.
As usual, it’s the ones who think they’re the only “True Believers” who tend to be the radical extremists who screw things up for the rest of us.
If hat statement is true give me omen example ToddG!
Justin — One example? How about… Starbucks, September 2013.
Thank you for playing.