To all of the in-your-face tough guy Open Carry zealots who held Starbucks rallies such as the one pictured here, thanks.
Thanks for forcing a major, high profile international corporation into choosing between its image and yours.
Thanks for making such complete idiots of yourselves with your “Look Ma, I’ve got a gun and a coffee at the same time!” antics that what had been a nice political win for our side is now a huge media circus about how Starbucks finally said stop bringing guns into our stores.
You can croon about how you’re educating the public all you want, but it’s bullcrap. And here’s a perfect example. Did you convert the average American? No. But you scared enough soccer moms, kids, and coffee jockeys that Starbucks was forced to take action.
It was you that turned Starbucks into a political battleground. It was you that couldn’t just take the victory of Starbucks saying it would abide by local laws rather than ban guns. It was you who had to push the limits and do things utterly unacceptable among almost any normal community in the United States just so you could brag to your equally moronic Facetwit buddies. You did this. You gave the entire Second Amendment movement a huge black eye. You just educated America, all right, you educated them into believing that gun owners are a bunch of retarded monkeys who’ll throw feces the first chance they get if it’s legalized.
Do you know what would happen if you walked into the NRA Headquarter Range carrying a gun like the guys pictured above? You’d be refused entrance because they don’t allow people to walk around like that. Know what would happen if you, a stranger, walked up to my front door carrying a shotgun like this guy:
At a bare minimum you’d have a gun pointed at your face and police sirens closing in at top speed. Worst case scenario, you’d get shot dead. You know why? Because in suburban America, normal people don’t walk around carrying rifles and shotguns. Period.
Go tattoo your forehead or get your eyeballs pierced if you want to be cool & different & edgy. Stop carrying guns or talking about guns or even thinking about guns. Because you’re idiots, and you’re not helping.
(for a less angry, more in-depth intelligent read on the subject, try Sebastian at Shall Not Be Questioned)
Train hard & be smart for once in your God-forsaken life! ToddG
original rifles in front of Starbucks photo from NBC affiliate KXAN
shotgun photo from thenewcivilrightsmovement.com (edited to add: per the shotgun-wielding gentleman in the photo above via practicaltacticalpodcast.com via Tam, that particular Starbucks is in fact in Kuwait circa 2005 … so no harm no foul, buddy, but thanks for giving me a photo to riff off of)
BTW, Justin,all that political impact you’re planning to impart…
I’ve heard projections of Texas turning blue in 10 years. Maybe you want to take a look on bigger picture with your political ambitions and see where OC fits in?
What curious and positive responses have you induced YK? And I have yet to witness anyone briskly walking away from us. Do we get a few dirty looks sure we do but for every dirty look we get 10 people asking us positive questions. Fact!
I am out too….. email me if u want
So let me see if I got this right;
If you are one of those people who are so proud that they can hit their target at 50ft with a handgun while standing in a peaceful set up like a gun range but have never been in a gun fight and are too scared to open carry, then you are a true 2nd A supporter?
I just wanted to throw my two cents in. With all this talk about “moms groups” putting pressure on the corporations. Don’t forget there are a large group of us moms (and growing faster by the day) that now carry concealed. The corporations (and maybe some men) better start thinking about our voices, and our numbers making a difference on their bottom line. Not all moms are against guns and we like (or did) Starbucks. I guess I’ll have more money to spend at the range these days.
oh sorry, I forgot to say. I have been following the OC movement in Texas and think its great. I haven’t personally made it out to help, but hope to someday. Last weekend I had a sheriff give me a hard time for legally carrying concealed. He only knew I was carrying because he requested my id and discovered my permit and then questioned “why would I carry”. It really put me off. Hopefully if the law was changed in Texas to give the choice and the police were better educated about the laws to enforce, this would all work better.
Ever hear the phrase, “You get more flies with honey than with vinegar”? Aggressively OC’ing long guns into Starbucks freaks out the sheeple. It doesn’t normalize guns, it makes them seem even more fringe to those folks. It makes them more likely to vote for politicians who say they’re going to do something about all these pesky gun nuts. I’ve had far more luck calmly explaining my reasons for carrying a gun in a one-on-one, friendly setting. I portray myself as the pleasant, reasonable fellow I am, and it changes peoples’ minds. The average person gets their initial attitude towards gun owners from the media, so they’re already inclined to think we’re nuts. Waltzing into a Starbucks with a third-tier AR that’s been dragged through a Cheaper Than Dirt catalog’s bargain bin is not going to help that.
If we want to retain our current rights, much less reclaim our lost ones, we have to do it the same way we lost them: gradually, in the court of public opinion. The antigunners lost their momentum in ’94 because they overreached, and the public at large saw them as extremists for the first time. If we want to avoid the same fate, we need to avoid the same mistakes. We have to dominate the mainstream, and slowly shift the mainstream to our side, until the mainstream IS us. Sitting around whining about slaves and jackboots isn’t going to do that. Taking someone out to the range and showing them just how much fun it is to shoot an AR will.
LHS…. Sorry you wasted all that time typing all that out…. Considering it’s mostly false..
“oh, I’m all for the 2nd Amendment… so long as you don’t exercise it in public.” what a bunch of 50%’ers. Open Carriers are NOT your enemy. We are just working towards more Constitutional Carry Laws; any weapon, any where, any time, carried in any fashion. If you were FOR the 2nd Amendment, you would understand that that’s what it is all about.
< – – will not apologize for being an Open Carry advocate. see me Sunday, on Seawall, Galveston Island, Texas. I'll be the guy carrying the camouflaged M-4.
No, we’re not 50%ers…we just carry smart. We don’t walk into businesses and throw our nuts on the counter and say “It’s my right!” Starbucks just laid the foundation for other businesses to snub us because of y’all. Coming soon to a business near you…all because of OC. Yea, thanks for asserting ‘your rights’ and proving that you’re an idiot.
These guys aren’t worth it Jason/Terry they aren’t any better than the Government in my opinion that we’re fighting. They think their opinion is the correct one and anyone else is just wrong and nothing you can do will change that. Don’t even waste your breath any further, THEY AREN’T WORTH IT!
A question for you long gun OCers: do you seriously carry a long gun, as in a shotgun, AR, AK et al with you all the time? As in when you go to work? Do you tote your long guns into Federally prohibited locations such as the Post Office? Did you tote your gun with you when you went to your last job interview?
The people who are complaining that the OC crowd’s actions lost them the ability to open carry in CA or in Starbucks make no sense. Ok, something’s either allowed or its not. If its only allowed because nobody ever actually does it, then it was really never allowed to begin with. That’s like telling your child that “you’re allowed to eat cookies” but then when he starts eating cookies you tell him “because you were eating cookies, it’s not allowed anymore. You ruined it.” So apparently he was never allowed to eat cookies in the first place.
And I think that is what this is all about. If it is the law, if we can do it, then we should be able to exercise that right. If by doing it, we lose the right, then we never really had it to begin with. So the laws are being tested right now. The final outcome has yet to be determined.
Joe, you are kidding right?
No, we don’t OC 24/7. Do you cc at work? Do you cc at the post office? Did you cc at your last job interview?
I am sure you meant something by your questions, just not sure what. Where you trying to be funny? Was there a point you where trying to make?
A question for you Joe in PNG. Is your opinion the only one that matters? Whatever you say is right and anyone else is WRONG 🙂
“any weapon, any where, any time, carried in any fashion”
How in the world can a sane person justify that as appropriate, much less safe??
Guns are not talismans whose mere visibility wards off danger. Neither are they fashion accessories to show off in public. Firearms are potentially lethal tools that require safe and responsible handling, especially in a public setting.
Open carry certainly has a place but I believe that unless you are carrying as part of your job (and easily identifiable as such), urban environments and crowded public places are simply not the place for it.
I swear, is it going to take some mentally unstable wackadoodle stripping a gun from an open carrier and shooting up a crowd of people for the zealots to apply some common sense?? It is not like the majority of the advocates carry in security holsters and such… and don’t get me started on the lunacy of long guns in public!
Ugh, this is so exasperating.
Reading through the comments I see that yet again if you don’t absolutely worship the idea of somebody showing up anywhere at any time with an AK (that they’re probably exhibiting poor muzzle control with while carrying) then **YOU** are the enemy of freedom and are no different than the gun banners.
Even if you aren’t trying to ban anything. Or have worked for gun rights for years. Or have taught lots of non-LE ordinary joes how to better use their weapons for self defense. Or have contributed significant money to help protect gun rights. Or have spent time in legislatures and knocking on doors to get out votes and promote important reforms like shall-issue concealed carry.
Even if you’ve done all that, you’re no better than a gun banner if you think some dude should have the common courtesy to avoid flopping around an AK in the coffee shop.
The internet is awesome.
Todd – we’re giving the 2nd Amendment movement a black eye? Tell me please – what exactly have YOU done for the 2nd Amendment, aside from sitting on your lazy ass or hiding in your basement with your guns? We are actually the front line against all of these gun control measures that crop up every time a criminal takes four or more lives. You left out the ultimate goal of this open carry movement. That is, to enact some legislation that would give Texans the choice to openly carry their handguns or to conceal. This has NOTHING… ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with toting AR15s in public. In fact, our toting of AR15s in public only exacerbates the ridiculous notion that it’s perfectly legal to do so, yet if you see my handgun, I become some sort of criminal. It makes no sense to conceal it. You sheep in the CHL training classes have been conditioned to brainwash your customers into believing you have some sort of tactical advantage by concealing. Well, in my book, you’re just a cold-blooded douchebag, who wants the element of surprise whilst you murder another human. Kiss my ass. I will (eventually) show my handgun, holstered appropriately of course, so every criminal in the vicinity knows I am not their victim today. Again, those of you who think that by showing my handgun I make myself the first target are brainwashed morons. Wake up.
TCinVA, I’m glad you agree with us…. that openly toting around an AK or AR is ridiculous. I, too, grow tired of slinging a rifle to make a point. The goal, which Todd left out, is to enact legislation so we can openly carry our handguns. No one in the OC movement prefers to walk around with their rifle. No one. Take the C out of CHL and I will gladly leave my AR behind. Until then, I will defend myself the only legal means Texas allows. CHL? I don’t need a permit to defend myself. It is my right, not a privilege.
Todd, You can’t argue with a fool. If they don’t understand that poking the bear is bad, even if you give yourself the right to do it, and is just going to get you eaten alive!
I’m happy your surgery went well.
My only open carry experiences were during my career as a soldier and during my second career as a police officer. However, I support the “right” of people to exercise their rights. If you don’t use a right then you might as well not have it. The problem isn’t the OC crowd. The problems are the strong anti-gun groups who loudly denigrate guns at every opportunity and the thin blooded wimps who advocate hiding from them on the grounds that offending them may lead to more restrictive gun laws. This second group, which includes the author of this piece and all of his PC friends, are the same ones who think that every kids deserves a trophy for just participating in an event. Sheesh!
“If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.” ~ Samuel Adams
You’re welcome. Thanks to you guys, we now know never to stand up for our rights, or exercise them in any way, ever. Because then we’ll lose them.
You say open carry “zealots” are making things worse by getting a rise out of ultra leftist companies like Starbucks. That we’re agitating scared soccer moms into taking action against us that will bring about tyranny.
Well news flash, the difference between us and yall is that we acknowledge something that you don’t. “We’re already there.” We’re not willing to go any further down the road that you are apparently comfortable with. You can go ahead and shift with the declining culture. We won’t. And when your government issued “privelege” of concealed carry is eventually taken away, you can shrug and say, oh well, at least we tried. We won’t.
You OC guys need to take your militant B.S. back to redditt or wherever you came from. Isn’t there a cop you need to try and bait into arresting you somewhere?
“Guns are not talismans whose mere visibility wards off danger.”
Tim – you’ve been conditioned to think that way. When you look at the basic facts, such as criminals prefer soft (unarmed) targets, then yes, the mere visible presence of your sidearm will deter the common criminal from carrying out his intended robbery. Chicago is proof-positive that criminals seek out soft targets. I prefer not to be a target at all. The so-called “tactical” advantage of CC only brings you closer to the fight. It is my preference that the fight never occur to begin with.
I’ve had this CC vs OC argument with several CHL instructors. After a civil discussion, most CHL instructors agree with my statements, one by one, but still somehow revert back to the “tactical” advantage. How can these people agree with my statements and then revert back to “CC is the way” to go? The only plausible answer to that is they are conditioned to believe the hype that CC carries a tactical advantage. In my eyes, CC invites a tactical firefight in the streets. CC allows the holder to think or truly believe he is the one with the upper hand.
This is why two CHLs had a firefight over a road rage incident and both ended up dead. They each thought they had the upper hand. Had they both been openly armed, they both may have thought better of their next actions.
Speaking of CHL folks, such as yourselves, exactly how are you representing 2A rights when you are gunning each other down. All we did was drink some coffee. You guys kill each other. Of course I dont rant about you guys killing each other because I am smart enough to know better. It would be nice if you guys would reciprocate and engage a few brain cells too.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/19/michigan-concealed-carry-road-rage-two-dead_n_3956491.html
Very disappointed in my fellow gun owners. I don’t OC or CC, but I’d like to carry however I desire. It’s true, free men shouldn’t need to ask permission from the government and pay a tax to do so. I look at it this way, we should all be on the same side and not bashing each other. I find it sad that some are willing to just live with the crumbs that the government allows them to have. It should be the other way around.
Todd Green clearly hates ‘Murica. Anyone who brings up blowback does.
I see alot of argument stating well if a criminal sees you carrying you’ll be the first target. Psychologically that makes no sense, unless the person is a total sociopath. Most robbers use a gun because it is quick to itmidate a victim. When a a gun carrier pulls out his/her weapon how often does the “robber” hang around? They don’t, the easy target now became complicated. These people are lazy!! That is why they are robbing stores. They are too LAZY to do the work to get a JOB. They go the path of least resistance. Now do I want to pack a AR on my back in a store? No, but what makes no sense to me is I CAN but I have to hide my .45. How much sense does that make? If the site of a gun scares people of a country that has been at war for almost 20yrs on and off. The people of this country have their heads in the sand. Guns are part of our culture. We train our kids everyday with guns. The top selling games have someone blowing away another person with a gun. Make up your mind America!
This new policy will absolutely not change how I behave in Starbucks or anywhere else – i.e. politely, quietly, and unnoticed. In a non-offensive environment, CC is more tactically sound than OC almost always. I think Jason said it best:
“YK …if I OC solo usually I am in less populated areas… we preach not to do solo walks in populated areas because of the chance of a attack. … but when solo I carry it in many configurations depending on platform and surroundings. usually on a single point in front or side.”
Since most of us on this site train and carry to protect self, family, and society, folks in this OC “movement” are disregarded because they compromise tactical advantage by transforming their self-defense tool into a billboard. Furthermore, they compromise the tactical advantage of the rest of the firearm-owning population by being misbehaved and generally goofy with these tools:
1) Guns out of holsters and in public without immediate threat to self or others:
http://b-i.forbesimg.com/clareoconnor/files/2013/08/1014189_602901839732697_1599059858_n-2.jpg
2) AR with no sling, optic, and likely no ammo (see mag in incorrect pocket):
http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mlf45meek/gun-lovers-take-to-starbucks/
3) Fashionable threaded barrel and pink trigger, and likely no suppressor:
http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mlf45meek/gun-lovers-take-to-starbucks-2/
4) Again, unholstered firearm in public without immediate threat:
http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mlf45meek/gun-lovers-take-to-starbucks-7/
5) Is that a Fobus holster? Probably not serious about equipment to defend himself, but serious enough of an OCer to go to the “rally”:
http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mlf45meek/gun-lovers-take-to-starbucks-8/
6) Sorry, Todd, but I’m pretty sure this 1911 is all “fun” and no “run”:
http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mlf45meek/gun-lovers-take-to-starbucks-10/
7) Why is this pointed at his genitals? Oh, for a “appreciation day” photo shoot:
http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mlf45meek/gun-lovers-take-to-starbucks-11/
8) AR-15, Mod everything-but-the-kitchen-sink, which was “popular” ten years ago:
http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mlf45meek/gun-lovers-take-to-starbucks-14/
9) Suit and musket? Jesus Christ:
http://box2263.temp.domains/~juliegol/pistoltraining/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/oc-idiots-at-starbucks.jpg
10) Borat with an unslung shotgun in a fucking restaurant:
http://box2263.temp.domains/~juliegol/pistoltraining/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/shotgunatstarbucks.jpg
This is why we at pistol-training.com do not buy into this idiocy. Defense of you and yours is serious. This topic is not a joke. The OC Movement hurts the cause when you smile like a fool for a photo with an unholstered or unslung WEAPON in PUBLIC. It hurts the cause when you rant about the 2A but couldn’t hit the broad side of the NRA HQ with your Fobus-clad Glock with a pink trigger. It hurts the cause when you purposely look for altercations with LE instead of going to your job during the day to earn a living for your family, like the rest of your fellow Americans.
Get over yourselves and smell the roses. As mentioned ad nauseam, firearm ownership is becoming more ubiquitous than ever before, reactionary laws are loosening, and the recent cries by the left have gone rejected. Go with the flow – we are slowly getting the upper hand and it is going unrealized.
What is it with some of you Concealed guys, you have your permission slip and you think that your rights are secure? I am sure that many of you are 2nd supporters and you do put your money where your moth is but in the real world you are closer to the anti-gun side than not. Once the Anti-gun guys get rid of OC, then they will ban certain types of rifles the other types of guns untill it comes down to the permitted people then they will come for those too. With the anti-gun agenda it is an all or nothing thing… at some point you too with become their enemy. And having a “permit” to carry is just that PERMISSION…and for you to have a RIGHT , any rights, are not based on permission and can never be removed. Todd you attacked the OC people by calling them idiots, and moronic , you tried to label a whole group with smug and asinine comments and used your forum to cosey up to the anti gun nuts to show how nice you can play well with others. Good for you, maybe they will LEt you keep you gun a few days longer. Thank god the founding fathers did not suck up to the powers that be, other wise soccer might be the national pastime and fish and chips would be more popular than hamburgers. I like many OC people do not feel the need to carry a rifle to wal-mart, but it is making a point, since carrying a pistol is not legal we have to use what is …including black powder guns… the point is not to shock but to make a point and STAY WITH IN THE LAWS THAT NOW ARE ON THE BOOK!! And if you think for one second that you having a permission slip from the government will help you one bit if you ever have the misfortune to shoot someone .. Just remember what happened to Zimmerman and he had a permission slip too!
“CA used to allow carrying of an UNLOADED PISTOL….” WTF? Why on god’s earth would you carry an UNLOADED FIREARM? I can only think of one reason… Because you want to LOOK COOL. That was the dumbest thing I’ve heard in a LONG time.
Awesome of some of you to be internet hardasses all behind your anonymous screen names and whatnot. Hint; the NSA still knows who you are.
The in your face crap doesn’t work any better with guns than it does for the “WE’RE HERE AND WE’RE QUEER!!!” folks, or the Westboro folks. It pisses people off and alienates them from the very message you are trying to send.
You can’t change the anti groups’ minds, but you sure can tip the on the fence people the wrong way.
Some of us have been fighting this fight for decades, I say again decades, and winning. When you are winning then the last thing you should do is step on your dick with golf cleats.
The level of just plain stupid makes my head hurt.
A few points to address some of what’s been said since last night:
1 — Again, I am not saying OC should be illegal. The fact that so many of the OC extremists continue to complain to the contrary tells me that, like any extremist, you don’t actually listen to people who disagree with you or want to have a discussion, you just want to chant your catch phrase and pound your heads against the wall.
2 — Again, the post above wasn’t addressing every person who carries openly. I have plenty of friends and students who live in places where OC is very much the norm. OC itself is not inherently bad and nor are the people who do it. It’s the people who don’t use their heads about when/where/how to carry because they’re too busy thumping their chests that I’m talking about.
3 — A number of folks have asked what I’ve done for gun rights. Apart from being an NRA employee for a couple of years and an NRA volunteer for many more, working for two major gun companies, and being politically active? I guess my only minor little involvement has been that thing about teaching hundreds of people a year to carry a gun everywhere they go and teaching them how to be effective with a handgun. It’s sort of what I do for a living. Really, you come to a site called pistol-training.com and accuse me of being the kind of person who sits in the basement polishing guns? Unscrew the dunce cap and THINK before you comment.
4 — All of the people who are Open Carrying in places where Open Carry is legal and pretending they’re somehow “more edgy” or “more patriotic” are being silly. If you follow the law, you’re absolutely no different than me (who carries concealed). In fact, you’re no better than the guy in Illinois who *doesn’t* carry. He doesn’t want to do something illegal, and clearly neither do you. The Boston Tea Party wouldn’t have been of historical note if they’d just run around doing stuff that was perfectly legal. How you can think of yourselves as brave “fight the government” patriots when you’re just humbly obeying the law is beyond me.
In response to this horseshit from YK: “BTW….I’ve heard projections of Texas turning blue in 10 years. Maybe you want to take a look on bigger picture with your political ambitions and see where OC fits in?” Ok YK, it’s not about fitting in. It’s about exercising our rights regardless of whether or not we fit in doing it. If I wanted to fit in I’d play fantasy football and tell people they should wait ’til they don’t have rights anymore before they give a fuck about them.Do I think our government will take my rights away? No, I don’t because I have plenty of guns and ammo for DEFENSIVE action if I become the victim of state-sponsored violent crime. Your rationale is that if registered sex offenders start moving into my neighborhood I should start fucking kids. I will NOT fuck kids, and I will NOT stop OCing.
What the hell just happened?
You bitches be cray cray.
What’s to be angry about? Gun rights lost? your version of rights haven’t been lost because apparently you would never open carry anyways, and you would never think of carrying in a Starbucks especially, you morally superior intellectual champion of where the second amendment applies and where it doesn’t. Good job creating no gun zones in your own mind before The libtards and government could make them in real life. A right not practiced has already been given up willfully. Good job. YOU lost the “battle” before it even started.
Did people practicing free speech cause the existence of free speech zones? By your logic, Maybe if no one spoke out we would still have free speech everywhere… But because people practice free speech now we need permits for free speech events and be located in small confined areas far from what were speaking against. If those people never spoke out, we would still have free speech everywhere instead of free speech zones…
In reality, by Not practicing free speech, the right is lost everywhere.
You guys keep using gay rights as an example and it’s a bad one giving that they have made tremendous leaps and bounds within their movement. That example just doesn’t makes sense giving I haven’t seen them lose anything only gain!
Brian — your version of rights haven’t been lost because apparently you would never open carry anyways, and you would never think of carrying in a Starbucks especially, you morally superior intellectual champion of where the second amendment applies and where it doesn’t.
I have open carried before and will open carry again.
I have carried in plenty of Starbucks all over the country for years. There’s a Starbucks inside the grocery store half a mile from my house that I’ve been in hundreds of times while carrying.
You’re being the typical OC Extremist who gives normal people who open carry a bad name. You’re assuming everyone who doesn’t agree with your jihad is the Great Satan.
Totally agree. Even if you had the option to open carry why would you? Concealing and carrying your firearm (as I do everyday) is the biggest tactical advantage you could have on a person that is trying to do harm to you. There is no need to show off your weapon and let people know of it. Keep it hidden and let no one know of its there unless a situation arises where it is required.
Lois, take reading comprehension classes. My post was pretty clearly about political climate in Texas and where OC promotion should fit in political activism priorities, not fitting OC in society.
Simple fact is when voters turn Texas blue, it’ll be no different than NYC or Chicago which you all OC guys are continuing to avoid in your never ending “fight”.
I am amazed how you all, with flood of your posts here, are carefully avoiding any discussion of the event that prompted this post. Let me refresh it for you. A private corp that previously publicly took a pro-2A stance, i.e. people like you and I, not government, have publicly changed their stance to anti-gun partly because of OC action.
I repeat, regular people changed their stance to anti-gun without any governmental pressure and partly due to OC action.
Spin it however you want, but this is what happened and I hold you accountable.
ToddG, I am trying to understand your last statement but need clarification.
You say you have open carried, did you do it in public? Have you open carried at a Starbucks?
Jeff Zumba, is that you?
YK, interesting how you KNOW that Texas will turn blue. Do you live here? Got any stock tips?
I am amazed too, I am amazed that you are so blind to the truth. Those who OC did not change the mind of Starbucks, groups like MDA did. The public’s view becoming anti-gun is due to the media who have to lie about what actually happened so as to turn people to their side.
You also seem to keep forgetting that to open carry is legal, are you saying we don’t have a right to do something that is legal?
And as far as CC being “tactically superior” to OC, that is bull. From the day I started the police academy to the last day I was a PMC, the only reason we ever carried concealed was when doing under cover work. Otherwise, sidearm was always out and so was the rifle.
I would like to ask of the CHL only guys, how much practical experience do you have with guns? And I don’t mean playing at the range, I mean actually in theater, you know, real world experience in using a gun to save a life or to control a situation.
Todd… You dont have to open carry to support open carry. The disappointing thing is seeing so called pro 2nd amendment people get upset for people obeying state and local laws… The 2nd Shall not be infringed, but we even accept a level of infringement don’t we…
If your pro second, you shouldn’t have a problem with a well mannered law abiding citizen walking into a place of business with his rifle on his back, where legal, to spend his hard earned money…
Todd maybe you’re the one who scared everyone off with your open carrying… Because apparently you’ve done it so much in so many places.
If you support the second you support all gun rights because they shall not be infringed. I understand that’s gotten away from us a bit and we have many many laws, but enough is enough. don’t tell me you support gun rights or open carry but don’t support what the OC group is doing. If you don’t support law abiding citizens obeying gun laws what other rights should we give up and what other infringements should we put on the second amendment?
Brian — You’re missing the point or, as I’m coming to expect from the more extremist wing of the OC crowd, maybe you’re just not interested in anything but your own words.
I *still* haven’t said OC should be illegal. I’m not talking about whether it should be legal or illegal. Nothing in the original post above talks the legality of open carry. Nothing.
What the original post is about, and what so many of the extremists refuse to see, is that it was the MANNER, TIME, and PLACE in which you decided to show off your patriotism. OC is no more or less legal than it was a few days ago. But now, in part thanks to these unwanted, uncomfortable, inappropriate “rallies” at Starbucks, you’ve managed to influence a major company to back off its Second Amendment support.
As YVK said, no matter how much chest beating and flag waving you want to do, the end result is that we’ve been diminished both in terms of places we can all go (OC or CCW) and in terms of the general perception of gun owners in society. Your radicalized jihad is tone-deaf and you make all other gun owners — especially the sane, rational, polite Open Carry guys — look bad.
YK, I Know exactly what you meant and my comment still stands. It’s not about fitting in with anyone else’s idea of what my “political activism priorities” (which will be acted out IN SOCIETY) should be. Not fuckin’ kids. Not gonna stop OC’n.
RCL, your reading comprehension or attention to written text are lacking too. First, I didnt say TX will turn blue, I said those are the projections, which are based on projections of Hispanic vote in that state.
I also indicated somewhere up that OC is a right, of course. I also said it carries responsibilities.
I can go to the nearest corner and say any crap I want to under 1A. It doesnt mean this is a right thing to do or it will help my cause.
Dont run around the truth, you lose credibility. Starbucks didnt cave into demands making their stores gun free when they were pressured to prohibit CC. The only, one and only, reason MDA were successful to have Starbucks bend over is OC giving MDA all necessary ammunition. Pat yourself on the back, nicely done.
Let’s make sure we can separate OC of long guns from OC of handguns. Any of you anti-OCers out there who would balk at the idea of OCing a handgun should go ahead and turn in your weapons to the local Brady Bunch and start cheering at Obama rallies. You’re no different from them.
Besides, it was the Brady Bunch and the sissy leftists that cried out for this to happen. I don’t agree with long gun carry, but I don’t berate people for doing it either. Grow up.
Well said. This article is exactly right.
I followed a link to this site from a liberal site. Nice article, and very interesting feedback.
Reading the posts from the more sane among you, and snickering a bit at the rabid, I feel compiled to leave a little honest post from “the left” or “the enemy” for many of you. Lunatics attempting to gain respect for gun owners through outlandish stunts is your undoing. I have been tarnished by the antics of the very far left enough to know that the very people you attempt to reach become turned off – and see you and your reasonable argument as the same.
You want to be seen as normal people, with normal requests, but you are shackled with your extreme. I personally want to see more of them, as I really don’t want any guns anywhere near my family. So to the foolish that think you are winning hearts and minds by you show of gun-toys, keep it up.
after reading all the comments from today, I have noticed that the core guys from this page have brought up several times about gay-rights.
Is this connection to gay-rights and CC just localized to this page (and guys) or is it a connection that runs throughout the compleate ccw staunch supporters community ??
I have seen this brought up 3 times…
Jason — So you’re saying the OC movement exists because you’re scared carrying concealed will make you gay?