Thanks, Idiots

oc-idiots-at-starbucks

To all of the in-your-face tough guy Open Carry zealots who held Starbucks rallies such as the one pictured here, thanks.

Thanks for forcing a major, high profile international corporation into choosing between its image and yours.

Thanks for making such complete idiots of yourselves with your “Look Ma, I’ve got a gun and a coffee at the same time!” antics that what had been a nice political win for our side is now a huge media circus about how Starbucks finally said stop bringing guns into our stores.

You can croon about how you’re educating the public all you want, but it’s bullcrap. And here’s a perfect example. Did you convert the average American? No. But you scared enough soccer moms, kids, and coffee jockeys that Starbucks was forced to take action.

It was you that turned Starbucks into a political battleground. It was you that couldn’t just take the victory of Starbucks saying it would abide by local laws rather than ban guns. It was you who had to push the limits and do things utterly unacceptable among almost any normal community in the United States just so you could brag to your equally moronic Facetwit buddies. You did this. You gave the entire Second Amendment movement a huge black eye. You just educated America, all right, you educated them into believing that gun owners are a bunch of retarded monkeys who’ll throw feces the first chance they get if it’s legalized.

Do you know what would happen if you walked into the NRA Headquarter Range carrying a gun like the guys pictured above? You’d be refused entrance because they don’t allow people to walk around like that. Know what would happen if you, a stranger, walked up to my front door carrying a shotgun like this guy:

shotgunatstarbucks

At a bare minimum you’d have a gun pointed at your face and police sirens closing in at top speed. Worst case scenario, you’d get shot dead. You know why? Because in suburban America, normal people don’t walk around carrying rifles and shotguns. Period.

Go tattoo your forehead or get your eyeballs pierced if you want to be cool & different & edgy. Stop carrying guns or talking about guns or even thinking about guns. Because you’re idiots, and you’re not helping.

(for a less angry, more in-depth intelligent read on the subject, try Sebastian at Shall Not Be Questioned)

Train hard & be smart for once in your God-forsaken life! ToddG

original rifles in front of Starbucks photo from NBC affiliate KXAN 

shotgun photo from thenewcivilrightsmovement.com (edited to add: per the shotgun-wielding gentleman in the photo above via practicaltacticalpodcast.com via Tam, that particular Starbucks is in fact in Kuwait circa 2005 … so no harm no foul, buddy, but thanks for giving me a photo to riff off of)

481 comments

  1. I wonder what the open carry people would think if someone knocked on their door and they peep thru the peephole to see a guy standing there with a sidearm, shotgun or an AR. Would you open your door without suspicion and invite them on inside? I live in an open carry state and am 100% for your right to openly carry, I am also 100% for your right to drive a car but I am 100% against reckless driving.

  2. LHS, perfect analogy.
    Nobody want to live next door to the feather boa and leather banana sling dress code bath house… except for other banana sling boas.
    I would LOVE for a upper middle class, lavender Polo shirt wearing gay couple to move next door. Those guys know how to make the neighborhood look fabulous.

  3. Todd, your original post was well crafted and made an informative point.

    Recently, I started studying Christian apologetics. I had an instance, speaking with a person, where I destroyed the “message” I believe in with the “method” I delivered the message. I realize some Christians have a history of making this mistake. I did. However, their are some like Ravi Zacharias, who’s method of delivery is a strong as at the message they want to deliver. Communicating with humans can be a difficult skill as reading these entries have shown.

    I was informed by you original post. You make a great case for us in the carry crowd, however we chose to carry.

    Stay strong Todd. I appreciate this site and its information on numerous gun related subjects.

  4. Here is a Post I put on several sites a few years ago and got a Lot of Bashing on a few of the other sites I follow and got lots of PM’s that I need to mind my own business. Well I totally agree with Todd….

    —–I want to get on my Soap Box for a few about open carry. But first let me State that I believe and support the Second Amendment 110%. My Bitch is with how some people abuse the privilege of Open Carry. But come on folks let’s do it right and not Look like a Jack Wagon while open carrying in public.
    I was in Chick-fil-A in Chantilly today for lunch and this Jack Wagon was open carrying, first thing I noticed his Revolver hanging off his belt it looked like an S&W N/L frame, second thing was his the belt was all stretched and would not support the weight of the revolver it was all flapping in the wind, next was his holster……..It looked like something Barney Fife would carry. I am glad it had a thumb snap to hold to keep the revolver from falling out. He was getting looks from everyone who saw his handgun and a few moms moved their kids away from him as he walked by, he was totally oblivious to his surroundings and how he carried his gun.
    Please when you go out in public carrying either open or concealed take some Pride in yourself and being an armed citizen. Be aware of your surroundings and how people around you are reacting to you and don’t act like a Jack Wagon with you gun on your hip for the whole world to see!
    Now Come on Guys; this is what gives all of us a big black eye in the public and gives Gun Owners a bad rap.
    A little about me, I have been carrying a handgun almost every day for the last 23 years and been carrying concealed the last 12+ years as a FED LEO and would NEVER go out in public looking like this guy. I spoke to the guy when I walked out and asked him Nicely to “pull him self together” and at the least get a decent belt and holster. He basically told me to Fuck off and he can carry any way he wanted and anywhere he wanted. I said thanks for making such a fine example of how to properly carry a weapon and away I went.—-

  5. Just the view of one more Texan, me: While I’ve yet to participate in an OC activist/demonstration day, I support them. If my work schedule (or lack thereof) ever allows it, I will participate in one or as many as I can until we are granted the right of OC.

    No, I’m not big on OC. I agree that neither an AR nor a M4 Benelli has a place in a mall or coffee shop (unless the LGS in the mall sold it)… but since current Texas law is so insane, I want OC legalized. Why? Because I want to be able to display my holstered CCW pistol, ie, go from CC to OC if and when the need, or happenstance requires (happenstance being accidental display).

    Currently, if my shirt tail rides up when I’m stretching or bending over, and someone sees my pistol, if they call the cops, I can get a ticket for “Brandishing,” which can lead to me loosing my CCW. I’m a skinny guy. I CC a SigP938 because except for our 2-3 months of winter when I can wear a jacket without falling out from heatstroke, a gun the size of the Sig is the largest that won’t print under my clothes.

    I shoot IDPA/USPSA with my HK USP 45acp. I want to be able to CC it without overbearing cops deciding I’m a ‘potential threat’ of some sort and making an example of me, or ‘teaching’ me a ‘lesson.’

    I’ve been to many places in Arizona and New Mexico when OC people came into, or were already inside of, businesses/restaurants. Nobody freaked out. Nobody even raised an eyebrow. Why? Because they’re used to it. Those guys weren’t acting crazy, so no one batted an eye.

    And you know what? In those communities, in rural Az and Nm, there is very little to virtually NO robbery, home invasion, or any other type of armed crime. Why? Because those communities are the inverse of ‘gun free zones.’

    Is OC of an AK or Mossberg 930 the absolute ‘best’ way to achieve public familiarization and comfort with, and desensitization to OC of handguns? Maybe not. But then again, none of us have the advantage of hindsight at this point, and only the future will tell, and unless someone can come up with a media-worthy way of spreading the word that gun people are generally good people, what is our alternative?

    If the only time gun people (perhaps not the best term, but I’m gonna run with it, for now) come together to stand up for their rights is when our backs are against a wall, such as the proposed gun control legislation this year, then we’re eventually going to lose ground. I believe we either have to more forward, or we’re going to move backwards, because the gun control crowd isn’t going to stop, no matter what we do.

  6. Just saw Dave’s post, above mine: I agree, 100%.

    I can’t stand slobs, and we do ourselves a disservice when we allow our ambassadors to represent gun people in a poor light.

  7. Robert, I think what you envision for open carry, most of us are good with. Rural communities where most folks are pretty firearms oriented, and are often responsible for their own safety due to long L/E response. In Texas, nobody is really trying to take rights away like other states, gun rights are trying to be extended. Accidental firearms display by CHL holders is now protected, training time was cut significantly for CHL, firearms in vehicles at schools is protected, cities cannot pre-empt state laws, ease of CHL renewal, no more specified guns for CHL’s, armed school marshals, AND did not allow legislators extra rights that the citizens do not have. Essentially, they have made it much easier to carry a concealed handgun. The problem is those who want to display their firearms openly in built up urban areas is really the issue (you know the places where all the anti-gun voters are). Personally, all the photo’s of people displaying their guns at Starbucks (including all the ones of people with pistols un-holstered and posing) and the L/E encounters are creating new enemies. Again, there has never been a cultural norm anywhere for urban open carry, especially the extreme fringe who really do want to walk around with AK’s/ and AR’s. SO, with all the success, including protection for accidental display, are we really sure we want to bond the anti’s together to stop a practice that even most hardcore firearms users despise. Is this what we want to hinge the fight on? Do you REALLY want to see those “NO GUNS” signs at many major national establishments that are found in urban areas instead of the currently popular “No illegal carry” signs? Because that is what is being asked for. Even most pro-gun business will change their tune when they start to see what many of us have with the “high profile” open carry people who want to educate and make statements…often with horrendous carry gear and even worse carry habits and confrontational attitude. My biggest fear is that if open carry is adopted, many will not like the follow on issues-like confrontations between private businesses and open carry advocates when asked to leave. This is not what I want to see the mainstream media focus on…and they will.

  8. nyeti — That’s just crazy talk. When is the last time the antis got motivated by over-the-top Open Carry folks, banded together, and caused any kind of policy change?

    Oh, right. Starbucks.

  9. Todd, your observations were very much accurate. In the past I would have tried to explain to guys like Jason and Justin where they were going wrong but there’s no point. They won’t get it. When you get to that level of self righteousness you lose a sense of what is really going on around you. I have an uncle who could easily be Jason or Justin….same mentality. His wife cant stand him and is afraid of him and his kids have one by one moved out of the area pretty much as soon as they could. He has no clue. One of them told me there is no point talking to him, he doesn’t listen he thinks everything he does is perfect. His way or the highway and everyone else is a liberal or a coward. He is loathed by his own family……and he has no clue. It’s really not about open carry but about a self righteous over inflated sense of ones own moral superiority. Really no different then a guy like Lennin or Mao…..just a different issue.

  10. Actually, in California the OC folks got legal OC made illegal, AND did nothing to help the CCW issue. What I saw with L/E in particular is that the normal “Pro-Gun” line cops (who got to deal with the OC’ers on YouTube) were pushed into the same camp with the Anti-Gun police executives.

    What is kind of weird is that Texas’s new law that prevents cities and counties from pre-empting state gun laws so that you don’t have the situation in most states where cities come up with highly restrictive gun laws (which I look at as a greater good)-Is the same law that prevents a partial solution to the O/C issue where individual counties could legalize open carry if that is in line with the wants and needs of those counties citizens.

  11. Well said Todd. This whole debacle is proof of how some of the pro-gun folks will actually push people to be against us instead of just being indifferent.

  12. Oddly enough went through this yesterday @Wally Whirl. In the 20 items or less line on my 54 th birthday, noticed my personal space was being encroached upon by dude about 30 at my 6.

    Glanced back and he gave me a feral look, so I looked back to the front and contained a giggle. Checked out & noticed Dude-bro was heading for his car next row over and had a Gen3 mid-size cavalry carry on his left side in a BZh Serpa. Thought “Jesus wept” to myself and got in my car marveling the fit youngster never realized the near- senior citizen he was encroaching had a Gen2 G19 and S&W 642 plus reloads for both.

    You cannot convince these people they are making themselves targets and hurting the cause!

    Yes, I’m a 21 year LEO vet, but carried illegally and undetected for more than 10 years before this career as a concerned citizen.

    STFU nd keep yer gun a secret till its needed.

  13. There is an argument that has been put forward a few times in the 200+ comments that the OC advocates seem to have completely missed. It has been advanced by ToddG, Keyfus, and several others.

    We are not losing our gun “rights” to the government right now – for the most part. We are losing ground by creating a backlash against property owners who happen to own a LOT of property. Starbucks’ reversal of its position should have been a powerful message that the “in your face” approach is destined to fail. Remember, Starbucks isn’t really a hippy-liberal place. It is a place that just wants your money. And they have decided that some folks’ money isn’t as valuable as others. I suspect that decision calculus was well grounded in hard data. If we as gun owners continue the “in your face” approach – a lot of private business owners will be backed into the same corner that Starbucks was. They will have to choose between 95% of their customers that don’t scare away the others, and 5% that do.

    OC advocates – take note – even ToddG’s WIFE (who is no doubt around guns a fair amount) wouldn’t enter a place full of OC’rs. I have seen so much BAD gun handling among gun owners that I wouldn’t take my kids into one of those places either. I wwill admit that if I saw a bunch of folks with handguns on their hips I wouldn’t be too swayed (and would probably awesome LE), but if I see a moron with a shotgun or an AR I am heading the other way. Without turning my back, and assuming that you have some nefarious purpose in mind.

    You may think that those of us who aren’t fans of the “in your face” strategy are ceding ground. I honesltly don’t care – because your strategy is apparently losing ground a lot faster than it is gaining it. Don’t assume that the rest of us are not politically active, are not supporting the NRA, and are not trying to do something with a long-term vision in mind.

    -dan-o

  14. Excellent article! The in your face open carry crowd is not doing us any favors with their attitude. I went to an open carry rally in my town this past summer it could have easily passed for a biker rally. Certainly not the impression you want to give to people who are unfamiliar with the shooting.

  15. Greetings from a former pistol owner in the UK. If I may I will offer an opinion from my viewpoint. There are two types of people, pro individual firearms ownership, and anti individual firearm ownership. Within those two groups there are many sub groups ranging from the two extremes “No one should have any type of gun.” To “I should be allows to own and carry anything I want anywhere I want, and no one should be able to even ask why.”
    Both arguments have their reasons, I (on a purely intellectual basis) favour the anything anywhere argument, BUT I also understand that we live in an imperfect world, and not everyone will have the same point of view as myself, and going out of my way to deliberately antagonise the “no one should have a gun” brigade, is not necessarily The wisest course of action.
    However I no longer have any of my pistols because we British gun owners were nice and polite and thought our reasonable, logical arguments based on reality would not upset anyone and cool heads would prevail.
    Well how wrong were we? I just wish enough of us had taken the “The best defence is a strong offence.” Attitude then maybe we might still have our handguns.
    Did some gun owners go over the top with Starbucks? Yes they did, but its passion like that that will carry the day in the end.
    Never give up, never surrender, and don’t go quietly into the night.

  16. I have the right to wear a ski mask all day long, if I walk into open carry night at the waffle house wearing my ski mask will they think anything of it other than “oh, here’s a guy who is practicing his right to wear a ski mask”. I can guarantee you that if I did that every eye would rightly be on me out of suspicion.

    There is a thin line between freedom and anarchy.

  17. “It was the OC people who planted a flag and declared
    Starbucks their territory. That an anti-gun group formed
    and protested shouldn’t surprise anyone.” – ToddG

    Wrong. The national effort by anti-gun groups to disparage Starbucks began in early 2010, when only a few open carriers wearing properly holstered pistols at a single Starbucks location in Washington state. Groups like the Brady Campaign, CSGV, and others insisted Starbucks corporate ban firearms from their stores nationwide. Starbucks responded that they followed whatever the law was in that state, which incensed the anti-gun groups. For two years, Starbucks stood their ground. In 2012, the anti-gun groups upped the ante by calling for a national “Boycott Starbucks Day” to be held on Valentines Day. The pro-gun groups countered with a national “Starbucks Appreciation Day”, held on the same day, at which participants were encouraged to open carry firearms where legal, and to pay using $2 bills if possible to reference 2A. Some chose to carry long guns on that day to show they would not be intimidated.

    So in reality, the carry of rifles at Starbucks was in response to the national anti-gun effort, not the cause of it as you incorrectly assert.

  18. REALLY???
    So now he’s blaming Starbucks retarded decision on the law abiding gun owners??? There’s nothing wrong or illegal with either type of carry as long as the law allows it. If they wanted to remain neutral they would have stay that way!! They (Starbucks) are the ones who dragged themselves into it. Their moronic CEO Shultz is as anti-gun liberal FUKTARD as they come!!!
    BTW…there is NOTHING wrong with supporting a business that respects your RIGHTS and local laws by hosting an “appreciation day”!!! STOP PINNING GUN OWNERS AGAINST EACH OTHER!!! Wake the fuck up!!!

  19. What was a better tactic for bringing showing people that gun owners are decent regular folks and important to business? “Gee, we had record profits today with a metric ton of $2 bills while there were crazy anti-gun people screaming outside?” or “everytime these gun people show up with AR-15’s and shotguns we not only lose business, but soccer mom’s complain and we get the police out for 911 calls”. What makes a better impression, which changes hearts and minds via the dollar (which is language of the free market).
    This is why I wish the NRA would have a special gift type card to truely show the American economy and businesses who we are rather than sending me crap in the mail.

  20. Where was the pic inside starbucks taken ? I’m understanding it was taken at a starbucks in kuwait

  21. http://practicaltacticalpodcast.com/starbucks/

    Edit: I was contacted by the individual pictured above. He is in the US Military, and for context, wanted to advise that this photo was taken in a Starbucks in Camp Arifjan, Kuwait in 2005. He did not request the photo be removed, just wanted to add context for this particular photo. -Casey

  22. I had an instructor tell me the other day that the Gun crowd is divided up with 20% progun, 20% antigun and 60% on the fence, and that we as gun owners owed it to ourselves and our fellow gun owners to conduct ourselves in a manner that pulls people to our side instead of pushing them to the other. Starbucks didn’t ban guns from thier stores they asked that you not bring them. It was never about concealled guns.
    As for the guy who is more armed with his G23, when the bad guy who saw you carrying takes you out first I take him out with the concealed gun he didn’t see to bring closure to your widow.

  23. QUOTING A PIECE OF HUMAN GARBAGE: “… I never understood the OC movement. In CA, you could OC with no bullets in the gun….it didn’t make since to me, carry an unloaded gun???? Even to make a statement??? I was told from a young age, if you are going to carry a gun, carry it loaded and make user you are ready to use it if you draw your gun on someone. Not carry an empty gun and bet them with it lol The OC group forced CA to change the laws because the would film the contacts with police and acted like retards, then post them. They are not the brights bunch. You said it best Todd…”
    ——————————

    Do the gun rights movement a favor and slit your own throat you fucking piece of shit.

    In the meantime, this video by TheHossUSMC pretty much sums up what I think of you militant concealed carry pricks:

  24. Having worked at a gun store, just about every open carrier I bumped into unfortunately filled out this checklist.

    Unkempt appearance? Check.
    General sperginess? Check.
    Crappy holster? Check.
    Keltec, Kahr, or Taurus pistol? Check!

  25. You should pull down the second photo. A disclaimer saying that the “particular Starbucks is in fact in Kuwait circa 2005” is weak.

    I agree with you overall, but I also think its lame to use this photo to sensationalize your story. The photo of the guy holding a shotgun is much more provocative than the top one with a gun slung over someone’s back – exactly the reason you ran it.

  26. @Stanley – “…when the bad guy. Who saw you carrying takes you out first…”.

    What are there, like about 30 states where general open carry is lawful, and thousands of people who open carry each and every day? So how about providing just one example where an open carrier was “taken out first” in a robbery. I’ll wait. In the meantime, I’ll say you sound just like the anti-gun activists who, whenever there is pro-gun legislation is proposed, wail and gnash their teeth with their chicken little, sky-is-falling predictions about blood running in the streets, shootouts over parking spaces, and rolling gun battles on the interstate. Hasn’t happened, doesn’t happen, won’t happen.

  27. I think it’s safe to say that as a whole we can rest safer now knowing we have people like “AnthonyHatesMilitantConcelaedCarryPricks” armed and at the ready representing our fine community. I certainly feel assured that my rights will never be second guessed after those on the fence read his persuasive argument.

    Obviously this ToddG guy knows nothing about guns, if it weren’t for his insanely awesome logo I wouldn’t listen to a word he says. I bet he doesn’t even own an XD.

  28. How many folks would feel comfortable in any public venue with a bunch of ethnic looking guys in mujaheddin garb open carrying AKs?

    Having seen numerous instances of egregious gun handling, why should I or any sane person assume that a gaggle of open carriers are all card carrying members of Mensa who are intellectually incapable of doing something stupid.

    The argument that rights not exercised are rights lost won’t hold in this arena. Demographically the group encompassing the anti-gun zealots to the weak minded who fall for the “common sense argument” outnumber the serious gun owning public.

    Those who flout societal conventions with guns are poking the proverbial hornets nest. Behavior like Open Carry will encourage the adoption of legislation that will negatively impact gun owners.
    e.g. http://www.ctgunrights.com/03.Political/2011/2011.Conceal.Carry.Proposed.Legislation.Yellow.pdf

  29. Interesting, I live in a country that doesn’t need to carry guns, actually one of many countries where the people don’t have to carry guns at all. So forgive me if I think your second amendment ravings are a bit hollow. You want to be able to shoot who ever you damn well please when ever you want to – because somehow this is you right. No wonder the USA will fall away from the rest of the world and settle into its own little civil wars over the right to kill.

  30. Rich7553,

    I think the shooter at the Washington Navy Yard STARTED shooting by popping one of the guards. We will know more about that one in a few weeks, but that is what the press reported in the hours/days following the shooting.

    -dan-o

  31. Ah yes Robert, why even comment then ? oh, right..more anti American crap. What country are you from anyway, the Vatican ? Oh nevermind, they have guns too

  32. You completely rock!

    Yes, I’m a pussy-assed liberal who’s not big on guns but I felt it was needed for me to shoot at least once. And I’m glad I did. Having shot, I have a great respect for guns. It confirmed my belief that they’re not toys.

    Carrying in Starbucks or anywhere in public, isn’t what the Second Amendment is about…unless, of course, you’re SO far gone that you truly believe that the non-existent UN troops will pop out of a garbage can and “take mah freedim ‘way”.

    Anyway – well written.

  33. I do not appreciate your use of the term “retarted” as an illustration of the ignorance of this activity. I have two sisters with Down’s Syndrome and I’ve watched people refer to them as retards many times in my life.

    Their condition is not one that comes from a lack of interest in learning or knowing something. They likely have a stronger desire to learn than most of your readers and you yourself ever will. The fight that they overcome each and every day to learn new things and accomplish things that we take for granted is equally strong. The difference between my sisters and the people you are addressing is that my sisters try to learn and understand the world. Your misguided compatriots willingly ignore anything that doesn’t support their viewpoint, hence the term ignorance. If you think that a derogatory term for disabled people, who are treated their entire lives as if they are lesser people because they struggle with certain activities, is a good analogy for ignorance, then you have simply proven that you are just an ignorant, feces throwing monkey yourself.

  34. Paul Day — Carrying in Starbucks or anywhere in public, isn’t what the Second Amendment is about…

    Actually, it’s precisely what the Second Amendment is about. I carry a gun every day and absolutely support the right of every law-abiding American to do the same. My objection is to people who would rather look like Rambo during a coffee break and who pretend they’re helping the RKBA movement when, time after time, they’ve proven they’re really just hurting it.

    Larry Bryan — I do not appreciate your use of the term “retarted” …

    I honestly don’t give a flying kitten.

  35. Would it have been so difficult to just do the right thing? Your prideful ignorance is no different than the ones you attempt to shame here.

  36. Larry — If we ever decide to add another editor, I’ll keep you in mind.

    In the meantime, please submit this to your supervisor:

  37. Mr. Green, I’d rather notify your registrar of your violation of the terms & conditions of their service. Perhaps they’ll accept your form as an appeal?

  38. My registrar? You mean the company that provides my internet service? I’m pretty sure they host things far less acceptable to you than someone who says “retarded” when you don’t like it.

    How this discussion went from the idiots who make up the extreme fringe of the open carry community, to gay-bashing, to political correctness is beyond me. 😎

  39. Chiming in….my major complaint about folks wandering around with weapons to “make a statement”,or because “It is their right” is that I don’t know if the stranger with the AR slung on his back is 1)competent to hit the broad side of a barn, 2) competent to make accurate threat assessments and take appropriate actions and 3) actually a “law abiding gun owner”. Add the fact that for myself, I would never OC in VA simply because I am not physically or by training able to guarantee 100% no one will take my gun away and use it. A little kid ran up and shot a cop with his own gun recently.Granted, the gun never left his holster in that case, but simply having the weapon out where it can be grabbed, knocked into, or potentially dropped makes it more dangerous to be around them than if they did not have their gun with them. The two CC enthusiasts I’ve known who go no where (except where they will be metal detected) without a gun think it far better to surprise a bad guy than to advertise. They are careful enough that I only know they carry because they’ve told me (and I’ve seen one of their custom holsters/vests). I don’t worry about folks like them. I probably won’t worry if I stop at the local hunting store or one of the little stores that do deer check in during hunting season if someone has a gun on them. But if my kids are around, a Starbucks or a WalMart, or simply walking down the street I’ll be moving on…not out of fear of the big scary gun, but out of simple prudence where a stranger is concerned. I’ve determined since the idiot open carry types are so determined to “prove” guns are safe by wandering around with rifles in inappropriate places that if I happen to not have my kids around, I’ll go play 20 questions with them- why are they grocery shopping with a gun, is there a threat, is the gun loaded, is the safety on (if loaded, is a round chambered, and if so, how is this supposed to prove to me guns are safe?) and have them show me it is unloaded/safety engaged, what is their training (marksmanship, safety, threat assessment, response). Assuming polite and cooperative responses, I’ll simply go back to asking why they need to be armed in a Krogers and how someone without the time or balls to ask all these questions is supposed to know they are safe. And tell them they are idiots, nicely. If they give me lip, or are operating in what _I_ believe is an unsafe manner (chambered round, no safety, or lack of training), I _will_ call the cops that there is a potential safety problem, or that someone is armed and suspicious.
    The sheer wonder is…VA is open carry, and I’ve never seen any but LE or hunters open carrying. So I may not get to go confront crazy. Oh, and in interest of full disclosure, I’m one of those gun grabbing liberals who hates the 2cd amendment because I want the NRA to quit pulling strings to get funding for ATF and comprehensive background checks gutted over the years, want to see background checks a requirement-some free 800 number with a yea or nay or see a dealer message instant check for private sales, required even if you transfer a gun to your brother, ID check for ammo- a felon with an illegal gun ought to not be able to buy ammo freely for it, make him pay black market premiums- and fix the national background check system so all the states need to report in a timely manner…paperwork sits on rural sheriff department desks for months, and meanwhile some abusive a-hole can go 20 miles and get his murder weapon. I’d _like_ folks to get a license, like a driver’s license, because I think it is just plain wrong that someone like me who has never fired a gun (one of these days I’ll find the time..been saying that for 25 years)can waltz into WalMart, buy gun and ammo, and walk around with it in public with some minimal instruction I got 25 years ago. I think I ought to have to show I know which end to point at a minimum. But that’s a wish, not a demand.
    But I wish I liked Starbucks coffee. I was never boycotting because they allowed guns-if they had encouraged Starbucks Appreciation Days I would. Leave because some guy with a gun inside gave me the creeps? Yes. Again, it isn’t the gun, it is the stranger running around with it that potentially scares me.

  40. At first I agreed, it is very in your face and what not. Then there was the terror attack over the weekend in Kenya. However, if there had been folks with rifles in Kenya? yes lives would have been saved. Look at Israel and Switzerland. people can carry there openly and people don’t pee themselves like Chris Matthews. So I am changing my view and saying I was wrong. Open carry is where we need to be. Its a new century with tangible asymmetric threats. We need to be able to respond immediately and not in minutes.

  41. Mr. Crowley – are you saying OC with long-arms, or OC with a sidearm on your hip?

  42. Larry Brian,

    Let me take this opportunity and advise that you get over yourself and relax just a bit. In the context Todd was using the word he was not trying to diminish those with special needs. Context determines much in our particular language and if you’re honest you know that. I have family friends who have a son with Down Syndrome. The wife is a militant on the term retarded much as you are. What she doesn’t know is that everyone around her thinks she’s over the top but they tolerate her ravings on the term out of obvious sympathy for her sons condition. Her husband is a good guy who understands context and realizes the difference between a slang term and using the same term to try and hurt someone. He knows his wife is over the top and she just adds one more level of stress for him to deal with. Odds are there are people around you who will never tell you this just as I won’t tell my friends this as my wife would kill me but the reality is you’re not educating anymore then you are irritating for no good reason.

    If someone is saying something with the intent of hurting someone then I totally agree that is offensive. If they’re simply saying it in context that clearly isn’t disparaging anyone with special needs then you really need to relax and let it go

  43. David — Thanks. You’d think English wasn’t so complicated for people to understand.

    Larry won’t be responding, however, as in his fit of pique last night he decided to post my work address, home address, home phone number, and various other bits of personal information. Because, you know, he thinks people should behave civilly and stuff. 😎

  44. Very “sheepdog” of him. Maybe you could wear an armband too so they know you are one of “them”.

  45. (edited; please don’t use this site to advertise your products for free without asking — ToddG)

  46. This is really fun reading for a gun control advocate. A majority nationally don’t back concealed carry laws, and when confronted with “open carry” are outraged.

    The number of “spree killings” is becoming weekly news, and general discussion of gun laws are hitting political discussion boards (left and right) daily. The conversation is mainstream enough to get substantial attention on Facebook.

    As the desperation mounts, the voices of the fringe become louder. You are watching as the laissez-faire begin to be involved, and your emissaries are walking around like they are living out their action-hero fantasy.

    In the insular world of you’re “CC” or “OC” crowd, you think you are protecting… something. To the general public, it looks very different. The conversations you have with other gun-enthusiasts is radically different what the undecided are hearing.

    Again, keep it up!

  47. TBR — As the desperation mounts, the voices of the fringe become louder.

    I’d say the anti-gun crowd has proven that just as well as we have. By going after guns that scare them because of their looks or imagined capabilities instead of looking at issues that might actually reduce violent crime, the fringe antis have blessedly screwed themselves into a corner. You know why you won’t get a new Assault Weapon Ban out of Congress? Because the Dems lost control of Congress when many of them were voted out by constituents in retribution. You know why you’ll see less push for radical non-sensical feel-good restrictions on law abiding citizens’ rights and freedoms? Because the great people of Colorado just taught state legislators around the country what happens if you kitten with our guns or our right to own and use them.

    If you think “spree killings” are on the rise (as opposed simply to the amount of 24/7 news coverage of such events)… if you think the majority of Americans are opposed to CCW (as CCW becomes more and more common and more states adopt less and less restrictive policies on it)… then perhaps you may want to consider whether you’re the one living in an “insular world.”

    I’ve got two landmark Supreme Court cases in the past five years saying I’m right. What have you got?

  48. The author ToddG thinks we should just play nice and be good little subjects and try to keep our 2nd Amendment rights where they are politically correct.

Leave a Reply