A friend just emailed me about the “holster” someone bought him as a gift for Christmas. It’s intended to be mounted to a car. It’s not the one pictured above but the concept is close to identical.
Exactly how bloody stupid do you have to be to think this is a good idea?
- Clearly you’ve never seen what happens in a real car crash. Not only will the gun almost certainly come out of the holster but there’s a great chance the holster will shear off the dashboard. But it’s not like there could be some other item or piece of debris that could get inside the trigger guard and add a gunshot wound to your accident worries, right? And having a loose gun amid the wreckage of your car couldn’t be bad or dangerous in any way, either.
- Question for the police officers reading this: You come upon this guy in his car late at night. His hands are on his steering wheel which is inches from this gun. Does this put you more at ease, or less?
- What are you supposed to do when you get in and out of the car? Are you administratively handling your gun multiple times per day with the muzzle pointed at (or at least very near) your legs each time?
- What do you do if you have a fender bender? Do you grab your gun and go out to meet the other driver visibly armed or do you fiddle around with your pistol in your hand first? What if he sees you with a gun in your hand?
- Aren’t you going to have to wear a holster anyway for whenever you reach your destination?
And as I was searching through the interweb I found an even dumber idea, using a magnet to mount your gun to your car:
Setting aside the obvious issues of (a) magnetizing small parts in your gun such as the firing pin and (b) relying on the magnet to keep the gun in place in an accident, you’ve also got a gun pointed at your feet with nothing covering the trigger guard. It’s just mind blowing. Well, metatarsal and phalanges blowing, at least.
Seriously, this is the very definition of a solution in search of a problem. Buy a holster that is comfortable while you drive. I can drive eight hours straight with a 5″ steel light-railed 1911 in an appendix holster like the JM Custom Kydex aiwb or the supremely comfortable 5Shot SME. Surely you can find some combination of gun & holster that works for you.
Off body carry should always be a last resort. And if you are going to carry off body it needs to be in the most secure and discreet manner possible.
Friends don’t let friends drive <something pithy that communicates “using a car-mounted holster”>.
Train hard & stay safe! ToddG
(dashboard holster photo from gearsector.com, magnet holster photo from TTAG)
And, what if you need the pistol in an instant and instead of instinctively grabbing it from where you train from (holster), you’re instead fumbling around under/along side a steering wheel with a potentially obscured view. Sounds like a great idea //end sarcasm.
Soooooo….you dig it!
I don’t have a problem with a car holster. It seems like a good idea for someone who spends long hours in cars.
The holster needs some sort of retention device. At least an ALS-type retention to keep the gun in the holster.
As far as car crashes go, a properly mounted holster will stay properly mounted in a crash. Of course, a proper mount is more than just three screws through the plastic dash cover.
When is the steering wheel mounted Serpa holster coming out???
I worked narcotics for a long time and always found it amusing when perps would remove their airbags to hide guns and or drugs in there instead.
I’ve seen some armrest mounted holsters, but don’t think it is a good idea.
“ It seems like a good idea for someone who spends long hours in cars. ”
I have put in nine hour days with a 1911 in a Versa-Max II. I don’t see what the big deal is.
Where does the CCW Badge attach to?
Dumb, dumb, dumb!
So do you leave it in the car when you go into the store? Or are you having to publicly manipulate the gun you have with you?
Having a holster mounted to your dash is a hell of a way to advertise you have guns to steal.
Long hours in a car? Wear a friggin shoulder holster or cross draw rig.
Tam, which is easier access, your 4 o’clock VM2 or that dash mount?
KevH, 9 hours one day? Once in a while? Or 9 hours five days a week?
Uh, yes and no – agree and disagree. Depends on the individual (and the holster), not everyone can physically carry on the waist at all times.
My fiancee is 5’4″ and has a very slender, petite frame. She can’t carry comfortable whilst seated for long periods of time in a truck. The holster we use is a Safariland ALS for a GLOCK 19. No issues for retention and if I’m that concerned about it breaking off (and it is quite securely mounted), then that pretty much means the rest of the truck has gone with it – in pieces (I still doubt the gun will be ejected from the holster body itself, so the trigger area is fully-enclosed).
That said, she has it readily available and it works. If you drive like a jackass, expect to be pulled over, but in the event that she is she would put it in the glove box and hand over her DL and CCW. If it doesn’t work for you, don’t use this method – if it does, then do. One can’t make this “all inclusive” decision unless the holster and method to secure it sucks.
Do what works for you and be intelligent about your carry method (incl. transitioning to your holster before exiting the vehicle), how you drive and interact with LE should you ever be pulled over.
“Where does the CCW Badge attach to?
By Joe in PNG on Dec 25, 2013”
the windshield wiper of course, flip on the intermitent wiper setting and your waving your badge for everyone to see.
I’m a fat ass, I’m working on not becoming a fat ass. But in the IT field, with long hours that’s tough. Because of said fat assery, I’m stuck with pocket carry or 4-5:45 IWB. I have a difficult time getting to said gun in these configurations. In these cases a well secured holster with retention works great. I hope to be a non fatass and aiwb one day be without these issues.
Things move a little slower out here in the sticks, we aren’t all city slickers who have to worry about unwanted observation, police officers, leaving it unattended and high speed car wrecks.
I have a holster mounted under the steering wheel of my Tacoma to keep my Beretta Cheetah .22 when I’m slow cruising around the ranch or down forest two-trackers.
You never know when a jackrabbit, skunk or coon might need shooting and it’s safer and more secure in the strapped down holster than it would be in a bag just thrown on the seat (and faster to access).
No room on my belt because that’s where my real pistol is riding.
It’s only a bad idea if it doesn’t fit your particular circumstances.
Valid points all around. However, 5 minutes into perusing P-F.com and there is a giant ‘vehicle mounted’ holster ad at the top of the forum. Not trying to say that’s good or bad, but it’s there.
The OP made some interesting arguments against this kind of rig, but my first concern was leaving a loaded, unsecured handgun in a vehicle when you’re away from it. Things can go wrong in the ole stop n rob parking lot while you’re inside getting the morning coffee, as your Escalade gets driven away by a guy who wanted it worse than you. Now he has your pistol too, that was too uncomfortable to carry in any of the aforementioned holsters. While those of us reading this are too smart to do something like I just described, there are a lot of handguns that get donated to undeserving crooks by leaving them in vehicles.
Just asking for issues. Having the mounted holster to keep your gun in the car? I vote that is a bad idea. Visibility to outside lookyloo’s invites theft. Visibility to a police officer walking up to your car when stopping you may invite you staring down the muzzle of his gun. What do you do with it when you go to the car wash? They see an holster and start looking for the gun? What if they find the gun there? What do you do with it when you run into a store? Leave it out in the open? I really think it is pretty much a bad idea. Just my 2 cents.
What makes me laugh is the author crying out against two tactics that are in heavy favor of some operators in the SMUs. Using rare earth magnets to secure a pistol(I am not a fan of it) and having a unsecured firearm for vehicle travel(particularly thin skinned vehicles). While the pistol was taught to carry it under the leg, it is similar to the concept here. For the guys who recommended it is was a throw away gun, they would have their normal sidearm in their holster and a second one under their leg.
Food for thought:
While I carry on my waist (S&W M&P or G19), I do occasionally use a holster & strap configuration on my Tahoe steering column. I put a S&W Shield in it when driving into the city between 3:30-5:30AM on my way to work (all kinds of night life and interesting critters at that time). The strap has two metal hooks that accept the kydex holster and secure to the steering column quite snuggly. The trigger guard is completely covered.
Not to be a wuss, but I can agree with many of the pro & con arguments above….I’m a definite maybe!
Like any personal habit, especially involving a weapon not on your body, discipline and awareness are required. The idea of jumping out of my Tahoe to get a cup of coffee at the local stop & rob WHILE leaving my vehicle idling AND with a pistol unsecured is just brain-dead! I love my Tahoe but it has no way to lock a pistol in the glove box, let alone a trunk like a sedan. That is why I also purchased a console safe http://www.autosafes.net/tahoe-handgun-safe.php).
The S&W Shield stays in the safe unseen when I’m not behind the wheel. Problem solved. I do remove the holster from the column in parking lots to prevent curious eyes from spying it. Frankly, though, most people aren’t clued in enough to even recognize what it is. Yes, I know, criminals aren’t most people…….I accept the risk of a broken window.
Being a Tahoe, most “lookyloos” can’t see my steering column, however, a police officer could see it during a traffic stop……hmm, decisions, decisions. I have thought about how to handle that a few times, but to date, I’ll just take my chances.
Anyway, I’m not against it, but I can see why many would frown upon it. I’m not sure that a blanket indictment of “BAD IDEA” is fully warranted here. There are many factors; is it a crappy holster, or a crappy mount?
To each his own….
W
seans — Ask SA John Hanlon of the FBI what he thinks about keeping a pistol tucked under his leg while riding around in a car…
Ahem. Okay, if you are going to get pulled over (for arguments sake), an Officer is not going to face plant himself against the driver’s side door before you have time to pull over while putting your handgun in the glove box. Granted this is if they aren’t doing a vehicle take down because you happen to be a suspect for nefarious activities and stationary.
Transition to your belt when you leave the car.
If you don’t leave the gun in the car regardless of the holster it wont get stolen, right?
Now all this talk of recognizing the holster – so how many of you have an NRA, Don’t Tread On Me, Fraternal Order of Police, MCLMM, Molon Labe, Thin Blue Line, III%, US flag, MagPul or firearm affiliated sticker, or a Military affiliated sticker on the back of your vehicle? Proportionately speaking these are the vehicles most likely to have a pro-gunner driving them and a firearm (or two) in the vehicle. Telegraphing because we are proud of our stance and beliefs on these issues and the American way of life as it should be…
I personally dont use a vehicle mount holster, but I can see some very good uses for one. The magnet holster pictured above I completely agree is plain and simple stupidity. The argument of a gun coming loose of the holster and going off in the car is unlikely (I will grant you that with something else rattling around in the car and something presses the trigger, sure something like a glock set condition zero may have an issue). It would be no more dangerous than any other debris in the car during an accident. The biggest issue I can see is that a carry permit in many states (including mine) is a personal carry permit, and a loaded firearm in the vehicle is still illegal even if the owner has a carry permit (not on their person). Whenever most people I know get out of their car with a holster, they adjust it anyway, so there really is no difference with reholstering the gun then. The biggest advantage I can see if if you happen to go into places where you cant carry firearms into (IE post office, school, starbucks) Those are reasons why I can see an argument for a vehicle mount, but to each their own. Biggest thing I can see is check local laws to see if it is actually legal to do, because you may answer the question of “should I” right there.
They picked the perfect gun to photograph for this sort of contraption – the XD with rubber grip sock.
Bad idea all around, for the reasons articulated above.
Like anything gun-related, there are good ways and bad ways to go about it…
I’ve tried a couple of different off the shelf options for car holsters – most were pretty bad. Drawing from them usually proved more difficult than from my on body holster!
Now, for long drives, I use a retention holster custom mounted between the center console and my seat.
Transitioning to and from my aiwb holster is easily done discreetly, and the gun is more accessible in the car holster than on body while driving. (This would be even more true if I carried behind the hip!)
The gun is easily covered by the tail of my shirt or jacket when I go through a drive-thru or something and far enough from my hands on the wheel that I would not be worried about a bad LEO reaction during a traffic stop.
IMO some have a valid use for a car holster but doing it right takes more than just purchasing a product.
To those advocating swapping the gun to the glove box if you get pulled over.
I’d expect a cop to get far more nervous (and cause more issues) if he sees a lot of furtive movements as he pulls you over.
“Oh, don’t worry officer. I was just stashing my gun in the glove box.”
If one has a dash/column mounted gun I’d guess it would be far better to just have the roof light on and your hands on top of the steering wheel or out the window and announce it when he walks up.
“Tam, which is easier access, your 4 o’clock VM2 or that dash mount?”
Again, I don’t see what is supposed to be so difficult about this? Lean forward, draw gun, same as I would in any other chair. It doesn’t get magically harder when you bolt the chair into a car.
The only time I can’t access it in the car is if I’m wearing my winter coat, which is why there’s a pistol in the outer chest pocket of it.
Come to think of it, that raises another question: How many people who have a special holster bolted to their car also have a special holster bolted to their desk? Do you have dedicated guns for each of those holsters, or are you constantly drawing and reholstering the same piece all day?
Risk assessment time. Which is the more likely to happent to a person in a vehicle:
-Carjacking
-Accident
-Police stop
The answer is 1) Police stop 2) Accident 3) Carjacking.
Now, is the bit of gear in question an asset or liability in the 3 possibilities?
As discussed above:
In a traffic stop, yes.
In an accident, yes.
During regular vehicle operations, yes. Either you’re holstering/reholstering a lot, or you’re leaving an unsecured gun in a car.
A gun in a retention holster designed for said gun is safer than a gun in the glovebox or center console when carried Condition One. However putting said firearm into the glovebox and presenting your CCW/WCL and DL really isn’t a big issue. Assuming you are the law-abiding variety.
Yes, obviously you would like to keep your hands visible by the time LE get to either side of the vehicle.
Put your hazard lights on, vehicle off, open the window and put on your interior light if it is dark. Why folks want to complicate the issue really?
I have a holster holding my XD-SC9 mounted on the center console along my right thigh. The barrel points at the floor and the holster is made for the XD and for this particular application.
I drive 500-800 miles a week, around Houston and through South Texas. Yesterday, I put 380 miles on a drive to South Texas. My XD is in its console holster EVERY TIME I travel. I plan my trips to reduce my time out of the truck and if I do go in a quick-stop store for coffee or a bottle of water, I take 30 seconds to lock the gun into my safe. Then, I go into the store (I carry a Ruger LCP in my strong side pocket at all times).
The idea of reholstering does not bother me. I practice and use this holster on a daily basis. Reholstering with your head “in the clouds” is always a potential for disaster. Holsteri g with conviction AND looking at the holster as you do (because I can see it) is never an issue.
The maintenance guys at the Toyota dealer and the guys at the car wash all take an empty holster with a grain of salt. I am more likely to have them start a discussion about pistols or shooting than I am to have them “freak out” as another poster stated.
I also have a towel that hangs over the grip area making it impossible to see from outside (even when looking for it with a flashlight). My hand easily slips between the console and the towel making the draw no more difficult than drawing a lig coat back and taking a grip.
Lets talk about getting pulled over by the police too.
I have been stopped three times by police (2 Staties, 1 County Sheriff) and have been stopped at roadblocks near the Texas/Mexico border no less than four (4) times I the last ten months. The County Sheriff appreciated me “keeping it in a safe location” and the Staties said that “as long as they couldn’t see it, it was concealed enough for them!”
The roadblocks were another thing altogether. Each of the four involved County Sheriffs, ICE and DEA agents. They were stopping all cars on the roads and asking a long list of questions … Presumably trying to ID illegals or people with nefarious connections (my assumptions, based on the conversations).
In one I stance (after declaring my CHL) I was waved through. In each of the other three, the Sheriff asked me to pull over and exit the vehicle. (Yes, I was worried!). He then called the other officers over and showed them the mount. I wound up spending anywhere from 5-15( minutes on the side of the road talking about my job, my travels, and the training courses I’ve taken. We (all 3 agencies and me) had a lot in common, and those guys like talking about guns too.
Is this type of holster a bad idea?
I say that if you have the need and practice with it, the potential for problems goes way down. I like it … I use it … And I am comfortable with how it works.
But then, my experiences are based in Texas. We think and act differently down here.
“But then, my experiences are based in Texas. We think and act differently down here.”
Ten paragraphs and you never mentioned why you use this holster instead of a regular one.
You did mention talking to a bunch of cops. Hey, you know who drives around in a car all day, every day with a gun? Cops.
You know who doesn’t use a special dashboard holster for it? Ditto.
Wonder why?
You did mention talking to a bunch of cops. Hey, you know who drives around in a car all day, every day with a gun? Cops.
You know who doesn’t use a special dashboard holster for it? Ditto.
First soda I’ve had to drink in months and now it’s all over my keyboard.
Although I agree with some points there are options here over exaggerated and some that are not considered. First of all I train a LOT and especially in vehicles with scenarios and the absolute worse place for your gun when someone walks up to rob your window is from the belt, under clothing with a seatbelt covering. But also with your body in a seat the angles are horrible and your shoulders and body movements are deadly obvious and slow. Unless you see the threat coming an able to unholster quickly and put the gun by your thigh you are really toast. Best case scenario you are both shot. Remember they have full mobility and you’re in a death trap. I’ve seen car holster rigs that actually work, very stable and have retention but the issue there is the movement required to get to that holster. Under the dash may give you away instantly. You have to somehow be very lightning fast making them react to your action, or simply give them your damn wallet. Both of you being shot is not a great option. The issue of having an accident the same time you’re being robbed is much like winning the lotto twice in one day, a bad point to be the foundation of your argument. And all cops should consider all drivers armed and within reach period. I know how to act when a cop stops me and they dont crap their pants when they see a car holster either. I think the opinions stated have merit but to slam dunk car holsters and shut down the option for uneducated gun owners is a little over the top. A great option is to mount a snug holster very close to your right hand on a console, not on the dash, and then secure that second BUG when not in the vehicle. It’s a little more trouble but you have a quick grab option without loosing your belt carry which I agree is good to have on you in the case of exiting the vehicle or tussles. In summary I don’t fully disagree but people with car holsters are not automatically idiots. We should all agree the belt holster under garment and seat belt is a horrible position to be in. You cant talk and BS your way out of that mess unless you catch them distracted or looking around. Just be glad I’m not a bad guy robbing you with that being your only option. Again, I practice these scenarios often. Understanding action reaction is certainly a crucial skill.
Getting a gat with a lanyard and attaching it [lanyard] to a powered sunroof or convertible top would obviate any below the dash moves. Just press a button casually and, voilà, the gat is drawn for you. Technology.
YK — How soon can you go into production?
YK, reminds me of a cop I know with a diamondback 380 in a holster that wraps his driver visor. It was very secure and boy you could drop it down and out the window instantly with no warning. I was pretty impressed with the solution actually.
“We should all agree the belt holster under garment and seat belt is a horrible position to be in.”
I can’t speak to the AIWB folks, but if you carry at 3 or 4 o’clock, why wouldn’t you sweep the cover garment out of the way when you got in the car and buckled up?
I mean, believe it or not, you are not the only person to try drawing while sitting in a car. Others may have actually put a moment or two’s thought into the matter as well.
OK, the point I’d like to see some more data (versus subjective thought) on–use of a high-power magnet to hold a gun. Leaving aside the security issues mentioned, I’m curious about the concept of magnetizing the firing pin or some other parts of the gun. Not arguing that it won’t happen, but curious if there is any actual real-world data on this and any deleterious effects.
Ahem, I’ve heard this question before, TLG…
Soon™.
Tam, yes I do prep my holster and garment when I enter the car but there are also times I need to just get in, buckled and go. I never said other people don’t put thought into it. I just said we can all agree that presenting the gun when buckled up is very difficult and certainly slower than some thug standing there with a gun in your face or his hand in his pants ready to come up. So if they catch you off guard which can happen to the best of us. You have an easier time faking them out and switching the tables when you aren’t wearing your rig under a seatbelt. Without prepping it’s horrible. If you uncover the rig and position it where you can get some sort of grab it’s still very slow in my opinion. One example how I would pull up to a drive through ATM is circle the building once to check out surroundings then unholster while I use the ATM. I don’t have a car holster btw. My main point was the clear cut and solid answers are not always so black and white. Be safe.
Tam let me please add one more comment then I’ll fade away. The same thought and care others put into prepping their rig or drawing in the vehicle or going under the seatbelt, other tricks can also be applied to how you design a car holster, it’s retention and location. Those who might simply slam the idea of a car holster may not have seen every creative solution out there. They may also not have considered having two guns.
My Dear Friend Tam.
I am out of town and posting with my ipad so I have to say I did not see your response., else I would have replied in a timely manner.
I guess I could have made my post ONE paragraph if I’d have known you were going to come down so heavy on me!
I didn’t say that I don’t use a regular holster. I use an IWB to carry my primary most of the time. But I also recognize that whether its In the 3 or 4 position or its one of my friends who uses an appendix holster … The frickin’ seat belt is in my way. Am I missing something here?!
When I exit the car for the day or I know I will be out of the car to walk a building or visit clients, I unfasten my seatbelt and holster up – in the car.
I have tried driving with my primary In the IWB. I only had to do that for a few weeks to begin to look for a better solution. Every time I tried the draw, I found that I had to lean up (forward) and a bit left to get a good grip … And to leave room for my right arm/elbow motions. It did. Of save me any time and was awkward. But that’s me! I tried, and it did not work.
As for your comments on the cops. I have to agree. Where could they possibly find the space to holster their baton, handgun, taser, and pepper spray. There’s hardly enough room in their car for them now! You also seem to imply that they just “drive around” all day. Which they don’t! Whether its traffic stops, meeting with complainants, or following up at a crime scene, most LEO’s are in and out of their cars a dozen or more times every shift. I am not! My life is not as complicated as theirs and I appreciate them for that.
Please tell me moere of how YOU feel I should live, and I will strive very hard to meet your needs (stated facetiously)!
I am sorry that this took seven paragraphs. I will try to be less verbose in any future response.
Travis
“I just said we can all agree that presenting the gun when buckled up is very difficult…”
No, we can’t agree on that. :p
At least in any of the last three cars I’ve owned, as long as I made sure to tuck the cover garment behind me, it’s no harder to access in the driver’s seat than it is to access in the chair I’m sitting in right now.
Lean slightly forward and draw. It’s not rocket surgery.
“Please tell me moere of how YOU feel I should live, and I will strive very hard to meet your needs (stated facetiously)!”
My dear friend Travis,
I don’t care how you live, or how you carry your gun. Glue it on top of your hat if that’s what makes you happy!
But don’t tell me you’re gluing it on top of your hat because tactical comfort access safety superior internet wharrgarrbll! and then tell me it’s raining. 😉
Dear Tam,
My point is lost on you. If you are sitting in a car, parking lot, red light, driveway and someone approaches you and gets past your SA and standing by your window robbing you. I’d love to see a video of you reacting to that robbery with verbal and physical actions to respond to that armed robbery. Lean forward all you want but chances are you’re gonna get your butt shot off, or both of you are. I lost count how many very skilled shooters I’ve seen test this scenario and I personally know many who sit in their garage dry fire testing all of these scenarios. Ypu must be a skinny guy sitting up in a pickup or some specific configuration but I’d like to see how fast you can actually get the gun out without giving away your intentions too clearly to someone who clearly has the advantage. This is why sitting in a car is a death trap for most, it’s clear you are the exception but I’d like to see you post a video on youtube of your results. I have videos I can show of others training on these scenarios and it’s blatantly clear that most holstered in a seatbelt cant deploy their weapon nearly as smooth, fast or stealthy and we know there are no milliseconds to spare in action-reaction or deceiving the bad guy to flip the tables and have them reacting to you. For example if I was the robber I can shoot you with my action in about 250 milliseconds from the low ready or hand on my gun. My same reaction time as measured is about 700+ milliseconds. No way you can beat that scientific fact unless you reverse the situation with deception or sneaky movement, verbal, or some actions. You obviously can’t disarm them from inside your car. So go ahead and lean forward, raise that right shoulder and have about 6 rounds in yourself before you get that gun up. Again if you can take your smart phone and video an example of how you are so super human in your abilities we could all learn from it.
All Best,
GS
This discussion has taken a turn for the absurd.
If you’re down to measuring how fast you can draw against someone who is pointing a gun at your head, finger on the trigger, then your tactics are unsound. It’s not just about speed at that point because absolutely no one can get a gun out — regardless of where the holster is — in time to beat the other guy.
Bad guys don’t walk up to cars and yell, “stay exactly where you are and don’t give me anything!” They want you out of the car or they want you to change seats or they want you to hand them things. All of these necessarily involve movement on your part.
It sounds like you’ve fallen into the typical trap of FOF training which is having the “bad guys” react like FOF demigods instead of having them role play realistically. If your RP’s are firing their guns the moment they see any movement whatsoever (your comment about shooting someone six times for leaning forward) then all they’re doing is playing the execution game.
My draw from a seated position in my car doesn’t really take any more time than it does when I’m standing and it doesn’t really take any more movement. That’s a benefit of aiwb but to be honest it’s not a huge one because, again, speed-drawing from the driver’s seat isn’t really a common defensive tactic. Nonetheless, I situate both my seatbelt and my cover garment properly every time I get in the car. It takes one second and ta-da, there’s nothing hindering my draw.
The same was true when I carried behind the hip in an IWB. Clear the garment, make sure your seatbelt isn’t in a stupid place, and (quite literally) drive on.
Seriously, as soon as you start talking about beating someone who is going to shoot you in “250 milliseconds” (how did you measure that so precisely? sigfigs anyone?) you’ve lost me. Next we’ll be talking about whether it’s better to pivot right or left to confront a sniper who’s already launched a 3,000fps bullet toward the back of your head.
“If you are sitting in a car, parking lot, red light, driveway and someone approaches you and gets past your SA and standing by your window robbing you.”
…then you’ve got some problems no matter where you’ve glued your holster.
I’m not gonna play this “rawr tactical rawr scenario rawr .700 rawr hundreds of shooters rawr” game with you. You win. You’re right and I’m wrong.
(Jesus, dude, the return key is not your enemy. Put some line breaks in that wall o’ word salad.)
Okay Tam, we can just agree to not discuss this. Todd, no I think the problem is just me communicating here. We run scenarios in training where we can prep the gun and holster to the point of being able to draw but I assure you the best shooters I know would be hard pressed to draw from the seatbelt and hit something in 1 second. Maybe you’re just a lot better than most, no problem.
The next point is that I’ve taken the time to record not only myself but other shooters firing from the low ready, from the challenge position, even with the gun pointed directly at the target with finger on the trigger and thankfully I have a pretty good idea in each situation that could present itself what I’m up against. As you obviously know it’s not about out drawing the bad guy but in my training scenarios and testing I know that if someone is already standing there with their hand in their waist band I have limited options.
Sure my SA and tactics failed. I was in a distracted situation and someone was able to walk up to my car and initiate a robbery. When they begin their movement I only have a visual reference and in my experience the round will be coming in about quarter second if they are skilled even a little bit. Try it sometime with your shot timer…. I can’t believe I’m even explaining something like this to you guys.
My best times, which I have testing responding to audio or visual queue is about 7/10 of a second with nothing hindering my draw and perfect situation. When I sit in my Honda Element with the seat belt on that time slows down dramatically, even with the gun and garment carefully prepared and my gun slid forward and angled to the best position.
I’ve gone through these scenarios with live fire where the bad guy actually stands on the other side of the car and we both fire. Those tests really opened my eyes to the reality of timing. Sure I can distract the bad guy, act like I’m getting my wallet and sure in some cases I can come out with the gun and beat them. Usually when I take some opening they provide. Such as them looking 3 and 9 oclock…. BAM.
Granted my real goal is to never be texting, distracted or loose my awareness of surroundings and avoid the situation completely. On the other hand I prepare for the worst. So I modify how I drive, which lanes I choose, how and where I park, how I enter and scope and area and what I look for. I’ve also at times unholstered and sandwiched the gun under my leg because I was trapped in a situation and any of the zombies walking around my car could have approached my window in a split second.
I guess my original point was you can try to have an open mind about car holsters and other tactics besides the primary gun holstered under your seatbelt. Not all vehicles, seats and shapes of people can achieve a one second draw time from the vehicle. In fact from my experience you would be in the tiny percentage that can. I wont even dive into the female carry complications because working out rigs and tactics for their body shapes, clothing can be an additional challenge.
I can see there will be no budging from your positions here and I’m pretty sure this discussion is going nowhere so let’s just agree on our common ground and I’m fine with you thinking I’m absurd.
P.S. Let me also part by saying I love the site and the articles. Especially some of the other one’s you wrote. I’m also a damned good shooter and not just talking out of my bung hole. So I have a lot of respect and appreciation for this site and your contributions. I’m not trying to troll you guys in the least. Over a beer this stuff works a lot better. All best, be safe.
Georgia — I think we’re saying the same thing but then coming to opposite conclusions somehow.
Everything you’ve said, to me, shows that holster position isn’t the important factor if someone “gets the drop on you” and is ready to fire the moment you take a deep breath. As such, that makes the idea that a “gun holster” is somehow better impossible to swallow.
Furthermore, it’s not a function of drawing to the first shot. The first shot may not — probably WILL NOT — be the deciding factor. If you’re stuck in a front car seat, belted in, and the other guy is mobile when the fight starts you’re at all kinds of disadvantages. Again, I don’t think having a holster mounted to the dash or the console is going to be the difference between WIN and LOSE in that situation.
Like I said, if your scenario is someone who will open up on you the moment you make any movement whatsoever I’m not sure what that’s simulating in terms of a real encounter with a real BG.
Well actually I think this is just a communications gap on my part but I think we’re very close. My brother was robbed downtown this very method and he was armed but two guys literally stepped out of the dark to his windows after he parked and had just switched the engine off. He was making a delivery and just about to open the door when the guy pushed it closed and raised his shirt and hand on pistol in sweat pants waist band. I practice for that worst case scenario even though I believe what you are describing is completely valid too.
All I need is a slight distraction, them looking around and I can confidently nail him. My bet his attitude will change quite a bit at that point. I test this from the waistband but the results are much more of a tie ball game. Now, with your input I will work on my vehicle draw a lot more. I’m very fast on the draw, and above average accurate but those .7 to 1.1 second hits from the draw I get standing or sitting in a chair aren’t as fast and reliable in the vehicle and that worries me.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I know I’ve extended my welcome on this thread and I appreciate your patience.
Not at all. Thoughtful commentary and debate is always welcome. Everyone wins in the end no matter what conclusions they draw for themselves.