Well, since it has been discussed in a number of places online, I suppose it is safe to announce (or perhaps confirm is the better word) that ATF has selected the Glocks 22 and 27 for its next agency-wide handgun.
As mentioned here at pistol-training.com a couple weeks ago, ATF awarded contracts to both Glock and Smith & Wesson. This means that any federal agency can purchase the Glock 22, Glock 27, M&P40, and M&P40 Compact off of these contracts.
For its own use, ATF has selected the Glock pistols. While I cannot go into the why’s and how’s, you can gain a little insight by reading the public version of the GAO decision stemming from a protest during the procurement. Note that the details from the GAO only cover Phase II of the testing, and not Phase III (which consisted of reliability and durability of multiple guns to 20,000 rounds each, among other tests). You can read all the details about the test protocols (though not the results) at FedBizOps.
Train hard & stay safe! ToddG
Todd, in the first article they said s&w supplies extended basepads..i am assuming these were for the compact guns? and not something like the arrendo basepad
so I’m just guessing here, but I bet the major stoppage issue they had with the Sigs was the slide failing to lock back? Because proctors were riding the slide stop?
ATF IS smarter than I thought.
The article states ATF was looking to replace metal handguns with polymer pistols in .40…I wonder if Sig came to the table with the P250?
Todd, what are the odds that Phase III details may become public?
Why no love for the Glock 23?
Prolly cause the Gen 4 23’s development lags the 22’s a good bit. It’s not even been released for public sales as far as I know.
David — I’m not sure what you mean by “first article,” but there were no Arredondo or similar basepads submitted to the best of my recollection.
RobE – I can’t discuss the nature of any stoppages.
Adam — Follow the link in the post regarding the GAO decision to read about SIG’s submission.
Sal — The procurement called for two guns and only two guns from each manufacturer. Glock chose to submit the G22 and G27.
“ATF awarded contracts to both Glock and Smith & Wesson. This means that any federal agency can purchase the Glock 22, Glock 27, M&P40, and M&P40 Compact off of these contracts.”
I’m confused.
So ATF chooses a Glock for its agents but awards a contract to S&W for handguns it will not use but other fed agencies (which could belong to Justice, or DHS or the Treasury?) can use?
Did I get that right? and If I did, which I doubt, does it mean that let’s say the EPA can buy guns on let’s say an FBI contract?
The ATF contract was for full size and comapct. The ATF specs made the G27 the compact and the G22/23 the full size guns. Gen4 G22 was ready and the Gen4 G23 was not?
There is some love for the G23; the FBI bought about 3,000 of them in July.
Forget… interesting the GLOCKs were more reliable during phase 2 testing, w less than half the shooter induced stoppages of the S&Ws. So much for the M&Ps more rigid metal insert polymer frame and adjustable grips being the more ergonomic and shooter friendly of the two? Not in those 20 hands.
Over a one year period after they came out, I purchased 4 different S&W M&P’s in both .40 and 9mm, full size and sub compact, Magazine disconnect and without. I seriously intended to look at adopting it as my personal pistol and sell off the Glocks. Sort of my own “Buy American” plan for personal firearms. I found the M&P’s to be a little bigger and a little more complicated and they did not provide any superiority over my Glock pistols on hand. I sold them off instead and stayed Glock.
I am glad to see that the ATF seemed to make the same choice.
On the otherhand MY agency decided to adopt the SIG 229 as a replacement for our Berettas and that contract is also open to other federal agencies. I suppose that just about any current pistol on the playing field is available to someone somewhere in the Federal government on somebody’s contract.
Some Gen 4 G19 reviews would sure be timely Todd. 😉
1st Gen 4 G17 – 4481 rounds, stoppages 0 (orig 01 spring)
2nd Gen 4 G17 – 2300 rounds, stoppages 0 (orig 01 spring)
Gen 4 G19 – 1600 rounds, stoppages 0 (stock 03 spring)
Glock 40s passed the FBI, DEA, and USMS tests. They failed the DHS tests. Some thought the hotter 155g DHS ammo was to blame. The Gen4 changes were supposed to fix that. The ATF tested w mild 165g ammo at 1050 fps, so do we really know if they did fix that?
i hope the FAMS see the Light and choose one of these and drop the DAM 250. I would Love to see the M&P40c as a issued gun. Hell for the price the could get both a full size and compact.
TLG, thanks for posting the real skinny on this!
I have heard that glock had a problem with the recoil spring assemblys in the early Gen 4 19.
Anyone heard if the problem has been resolved?