Tam over at View from the Porch has an interesting spin on the growing popularity of the Zombie Target fad. While you probably won’t be seeing any of them at your next pistol-training.com class, Tam makes a pretty good argument that there’s more to the zombies than End Time fantasy.
As she points out, there are places where shooting at photorealistic targets of actual human beings may be frowned upon, but with the zombie, “[You] get to shoot an anthropomorphic target, the people on the next lane over get to train their 8-year-old daughter to shoot her Cricket without feeling a little uncomfortable, and everybody’s happy.”
I’ve never believed in the need for a photorealistic target for 100% of my shooting practice. I probably shoot less than 100 rounds a year on photorealistic targets these days, and that’s been the case for most of the last decade. (The NRA Range, where I shoot, does not allow any target with obvious human features like eyes or hands … even the cartoon zombies are verboten)
In fact, prior to the PTC target, almost all of the shooting I’ve done over the past few years has been on 3×5 cards, paper plates, and the very same printable targets you’ve seen here at pistol-training.com.
But Todd, you ask, how will you know where to aim on a human target? “Upper chest” and “eyes” just aren’t that complicated conceptually. Even translating that into a 3D target isn’t something that requires a T800 chip in your cranium. Earlier this year I won the annual Rangemaster Tactical Conference Match in Tulsa. Many of the targets we had to engage were the outstanding 3D reactive “Teds” from DVC Targets (pictured at right). No problem. If you can put a bullet in a 3×5 card on demand, hitting the vital zone(s) of a humanoid torso just isn’t that tricky.
On the other hand, I do think there are some humanoid-shaped targets that can be counterproductive. The classic B-27, for instance, rewards you for shooting belly buttons and penalizes you for heart/lung hits:
This is a classic example of building bad habits. So while I think the zombie targets are sort of silly, they’re far more useful than the B-27 pictured here (image courtesy National Target Co.).
A certain amount of realism is important in training, but it’s important to keep in mind what is real and what is just less unreal. A two dimensional non-moving target is not realistic regardless of what’s portrayed thereon. There are some benefits to using photorealistic targets some of the time, just as there are some benefits to shooting under adverse conditions some of the time. But mastering the skills you need to hit what you want to hit, on demand, under stress is about a lot more than whether your particular sheet of 22 x 35″ target paper is in Technicolor or not.
Train hard & stay safe! ToddG
“[You] get to shoot an anthropomorphic target, the people on the next lane over get to train their 8-year-old daughter to shoot her Cricket without feeling a little uncomfortable, and everybody’s happy.”
I hope she was being sarcastic. If I’m there with my 8 yr old and some clown hangs one of those in the next lane, there will be some discussion with the clown and the RO. I don’t want my kid seeing that crap.
hmm, first off, Todd disses me for owning a Desert Eagle .50 AE, and now he disses the only reason I own that gun? Zombies dude, they are real.
Secondly, in all seriousness, what would be wrong with hanging a zombie target near an 8yr old child? Sorry but I just don’t see the issue at all. they are more cartoonish than anything.
Thirdly, I have to agree on the B27 and similar targets, in FoF training I’ve done with people who’ve only ever qualified on those targets, the idea of shooting elsewhere is often hard to get across. At least some departments are moving away from them, but it will be many years before they fade out entirely I’m sure.
Robbie said, “what would be wrong with hanging a zombie target near an 8yr old child? Sorry but I just don’t see the issue at all. they are more cartoonish than anything.”
It’s not nice to refer to 8yr old children as “cartoonish.”
8)
Mark,
If you want to leave your children uneducated about the perils of the zombie menace, that’s your call…
>In fact, prior to the PTC target, almost all of the shooting I’ve done over the past few years has been on 3×5 cards, paper plates
This has been the case for me too since I picked up the tip from you. Besides the training implications, another thing I love about it is that it’s dirt cheap. No point in bothering with pasties and the like to cover up holes when I can pick up a stack of index cards and paper plates that will last me ages for maybe $5. 🙂
i use postage stamps for my targets. i scan them in very high-resolution then print them on 11X17 paper. this way i can tell people i can put all 14 rounds from my 21sf into a single postage stamp at 25 yards and not be lying.
I use them quite often… the zombie targets. Because I found pretty much the same conclusions after using them in a class. I don’t want the photo/real targets as they do turn some new students off. The fence sitters that come out to a class because of Boyfriend or Husband… or because the Girlfriend dragged him. We want them to be more comfortable. A goofy Zombie Target does that. Breaks tension. They can laugh a little.
Also, with the Humor factor involved… students retain information a heck of a lot better.
Mark—-all jokes about the Zombie Apocalypse aside, what is the problem with using zombie targets?
You say “If I’m there with my 8 yr old and some clown hangs one of those in the next lane, there will be some discussion with the clown and the RO. I don’t want my kid seeing that crap.”—-which seems a really strong reaction that I don’t understand.
What’s the problem with it? Why is it a big deal, and what about it requires an RO’s intervention?
I fully agree with Mark’s comments about the depicted zombie target and would likely have a similar reaction if someone attempted to use one around my children.
That particular one is a little creepy, now that you mention it.
I like the “Zombie Bob” one myself. He’s pretty benign-looking for an animated corpse.
Tam, great response, that is pretty funny.:)
Thomas, the image on the target in the article is repulsive and not something small children should have locked into their minds. You and others might disagree. But as a parent, my job is to be the filter for my kids. Therefore, were I at a public range with one of my kids and someone put one of those targets up in the next stall, I would politely ask that they not use it. I’d even offer them a target of my own. If they couldn’t show consideration, then I would ask the RO whether he was running a family-friendly range, and if so, please explain that to all parties.
By the way, since any time I’ve had my kids at a public range the ROs were thrilled and thanked me repeatedly for getting my kids into the shooting sports, I’m confident that the zombie target would disappear.
Well, I have to say I see both sides of this. Keep in mind, we are a kid-free zone here at Casa Verde, and I don’t actually use zombie targets. Ever.
But if I just drove an hour to a public range where these kinds of targets are allowed and someone with a youngster approached me about my zombies, my reaction was hinge on the parent’s attitude.
If there was a lot of “how dare you what is your malfunction take those down right now or else!” stuff, I’d politely tell him to pound sand. I’ve got as much right to shoot as he (or his child) does, and if I’m obeying all the rules, it’s not my responsibility to sacrifice because he wants to protect his progeny from the mind-bending evil of zombie cartoons.
On the other hand, if the guy was polite and understood he was asking me to do it as a favor to him (or his child), and either I had other targets, could easily and cheaply acquire other suitable targets, or he offered to give me some suitable targets… no harm no foul. After all, one of the great things about the shooting community is that (for the most part) we’re allies rather than enemies. Most shooters are willing to bend over backwards if it helps Dad teach Junior to love our hobby as much as we do.
I’ve run into a similar issue at the local range where I shoot. Someone complains that my rate of fire or my movement or who-knows-what is distracting him. Keep in mind, “him” is often some dimwit with a 7″ AR pistol equipped with the world’s loudest brake. Or “him” is an instructor who thinks the public range should shut down while he makes some extra cash teaching Personal Protection in the Home. I’m willing to be flexible in my practice, but I do need to practice. I’m paying to be at the range just like he is, and as long as I’m obeying the rules, I’m not obligated to sacrifice my practice for his.
what if the zombie target is being used by an 8 year old who wants to use it? does your filtering for your child somehow trump that of other parents?
i’d tell the person it’s your child not mine. it is your responsibility to protect them from whatever material you deem offensive to them not mine. this is not porn or gratuitous violence in which case i would agree that material is never appropriate for children. this is a cartoonist rendering of a make-believe creature.
if i am here with my son and he wants to use the zombie target and the range allows / sells them then i think it would be fairly self-centered and obnoxious to confront others asking them to conform to your reality.
David,
Whose reality is it when you dream up a scenario I never mentioned and then get snippy about how you think I would react?
what false scenario did i create? i didn’t have to think of how you would react, you clearly stated what your actions would be. you clearly stated you would expect others swap out their choice of targets simply to accommodate your parenting guidelines.
(MARK said:) “I hope she was being sarcastic. If I’m there with my 8 yr old and some clown hangs one of those in the next lane, there will be some discussion with the clown and the RO. I don’t want my kid seeing that crap.”
(MARK said:) “were I at a public range with one of my kids and someone put one of those targets up in the next stall, I would politely ask that they not use it. I’d even offer them a target of my own. If they couldn’t show consideration, then I would ask the RO whether he was running a family-friendly range, and if so, please explain that to all parties.”
(MARK said:) “By the way, since any time I’ve had my kids at a public range the ROs were thrilled and thanked me repeatedly for getting my kids into the shooting sports, I’m confident that the zombie target would disappear.”
David,
You said “what if . . .?” and threw in a bunch of details that hadn’t existed heretofore. Your choice if that’s what you want to do. I’m sure Todd didn’t intend for this to devolve into a spat so I’m done now. Have a Merry Christmas with your family.
And a radical ChristmaHanaKwanzaDan to you and yours as well.
Mark said:
“Thomas, the image on the target in the article is repulsive and not something small children should have locked into their minds.”
Hmm. Have you talked with any small children lately? Seriously? I confess that I don’t understand how anyone with children would think that this flat, black/white picture would in any way traumatize them.
The good side is that you (unlike many parents) actually care about what your child sees. Kudos for that. Seriously—I’m not being sarcastic.
I would say, however, that if I were shooting this target at a range, and you requested that I stop, I’d probably suggest you move a couple of lanes down so that your child wouldn’t have to deal with the trauma. (I’d also say that first I’d think you were joking.)
I’ll also note that last Halloween, we had a Zombie Shoot at our range, and it _was_ a family-friendly match, with people (and kids) of all ages shooting zombies in the head. (The Scoring page even has pictures of the heads everyone would be shooting—link included at the end.) Everyone had a great time, and no one (including the children) were traumatized in any way.
Gee, I wonder if Paul Howe uses zombie targets? <(;-(
Wow–just wow..
3×5 index cards rule!! And the cheapest paper plates with the center cut out. Great and cheap “target areas”.
A few of the ranges near me were selling Zombie targets around halloween time. One of them did it in conjunction with a fundraiser. A good time was had by all.