… as long as you just go away!
At the NRA Range today, two guys came in who obviously had little (or no) former firearms experience. One of them pulled up a chair behind my lane and sat down. When I turned around, he was holding a Glock in his hands, just admiring it… behind the firing line, pointed at my back. The Range Officer on duty was already dealing with his partner (who’d missed the part of the safety lecture about not pointing your gun cross-range at others) so I approached him and explained that there was no gun handling behind the firing line. He was cranky but complied.
Mere minutes later, he was on the firing line and put his loaded Glock down facing right at me. The RO saw it and immediately addressed it. The guy huffed a bit but fixed the problem.
Not five minutes after that, his partner pulled out a new S&W Bodyguard .380 and handed it to our intrepid shooter. He was apparently quite taken with the markings on the side of the gun because he seemed absolutely unable to stop pointing it sideways to look. The RO again corrected him.
Third time was a charm (or maybe it was three strikes and you’re out), but the guy got genuinely upset at this point. He whined about the RO picking on him, packed up his stuff, and left the range… through the heavy steel door with the giant NOT AN EXIT painted on it in bright red letters. Whether he did that to be a jerk or because he’d also failed to pay attention to the range briefing beforehand, I couldn’t tell you. Let’s assume both.
It’s one thing to be new to shooting. The other guy sharing the lane, who’d also been visited by the RO a couple of times, took it all in stride and spent a solid hour practicing safely.
It’s another to get pissy when other shooters and/or the Range Officer tell you to stop doing something unsafe. Repeatedly. As soon as you step over that line where your fun at the range is more important than everyone else’s safety I say good riddance. If you’re not mature enough to respect basic firearms safety when handling a gun around others, don’t expect us to feel bad when you take your football and pout your way home.
Train hard & stay safe! ToddG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNCM8IjtQ-o
Either play them this or give’em a little “Stitch Jones.” (you’ll have to youtube it yourself because it’s got both F words in it.
I stopped going to the shooting range at the public park because I honestly felt that endangered by going there. It’s a shame.
J.Ja
Well said.
Here in the Colorado Front Range area, there aren’t many ranges; even fewer open to the public. So a few years back, a buddy (who’s in the CO National Guard) and I went out to a nice, well-known spot in Roosevelt National Forest to shoot.
Being in the middle of nowhere, there are berms but no ROs.
We had a guy one time drive up, set up his scope, shooting mat and rifle, and then open up a beer. We skedaddled.
Another time, a group came and scoured the “main” area for brass while we were shooting at a 45-degree angle to them — never communicating with us at all. In addition, they were using rifles as walking sticks, barrel-up with actions closed. Once we realized all this, we skedaddled, both to avoid their safety issues and to not have them downrange of us.
After that, we learned our lesson and found memberships to ranges that police their shooters for safety.
Todd, I think it might be time to build your own firing range in the basement.
There’s a range here in central NJ that actually has an interview with both a sit-down portion as well as a safety prac-app portion. I bet a place like that would get lots of good members down in NoVA….the ranges there are already over-capacity as it is, so I can’t imagine there being a shortage of willing and able members.
Saturday + Holiday weekend = no range trips for me. Too bad there was not a gun shows in Chantilly this weekend you could have experienced the perfect trifecta.
I agree with you, Todd. Too many people are oblivious to the dangers these weapons pose when misused. The range I use has 3 rooms, and I have switched rooms multiple times because of unsafe practices I see around me. I wish they had more RO’s to keep these folks in line.
Irresponsible gun owners: Giving anti-gunners more ammunition, one idiot at a time.
I am so glad the range I use requires you to go through two locked gates.
Gate one is the general membership gate.
To get a key to the second gate you have to be a member of the action pistol sub-club AND a regular competitor.
I was at the range for 4 hours on a beautiful weather holiday Saturday and had all 4 bays to myself.
I hate hearing stuff like this as it sounds all too familiar. It’s not unlike driving and s**ty drivers really; a day doesn’t go by where I don’t find myself in awe of certain people’s carelessness when performing tasks where an “error” can result in injuries or worse.
Once, while SOing an IDPA match, I had a new shooter literally toss a hot 1911 with the safety disengaged at me after stopping him for the third time for breaking our club’s 180 rule, running with his finger in the trigger-guard with the gun pointed to th sky ala Magnum P.I., and other nonsense, after telling him to stop, unload, and show clear… Still not sure how he kept a straight face while trying to argue with me about what was so wrong about what he did, and how I managed to avoid taking a little subject control practice on him when I had to endure the tantrum he threw when I DQ’d him and told him he was done for the day…
Going to throw a question out to all the RO/SO’s here– has a shooter’s tantrum or actions been so severe that you’ve actually decided to file a complaint with law enforcement? I realize that’s an escalation, but after reading ChipK’s post, I’m thinking “geez, that’s really a criminal act”. If the RO can’t help them change their behavior, some legal action might.
Probably one of the unnerving conversations to overhear is the RO telling someone behind you not to handle their weapon behind the line. You just know that there was a gun pointed at your back.
ChipK…
Sometimes I think it should be legal for SO’s and RO’s to keep thier gun loaded and holstered… how long before there is a gun rage incident at a gun range or competition.
you think the old adage, an armed society is a polite society and yet we have all seen the “rager” at one point or another.
NWGlocker,
I work at a privately owned range that is open to the public here in NYS (not NYC). To answer your question, Yes, there was an incident once where a hot-head was arguing with his friend, stepped off the line and out of the stall with a hot gun and kept gesturing to his friend with the muzzle.
He was detained, at gunpoint, until the police arrived and since everything at the range is videotaped, the entire incident was captured.
When you are not actually in the stall or on the firing line, the same laws apply as if you were simply out in public. The only law that isn’t enforced would be the one regarding open carry (which is not allowed in NYS). We allow people to keep the firearm in an exposed holster if the shooter wishes to leave the range and head back into the store for a bathroom break, to buy more ammo/targets, etc.
So, to also answer Wesley’s question…we are armed and carrying hot when performing RSO duties at our range. Though this is not a competition range or event…it is private property that happens to be open to the public for an admission fee.
Throwing a loaded gun at anyone is assault with a deadly weapon. No humor.
I’ve got zero tolerance for unsafe gun handling or shooters. The stakes are simply too high.
Ha, It’d be a lie to say that that particular incident didn’t have me wondering about some legality questions…
Really, for me, it was more about the good of the club/range than anything else; shooting guns rapidly, in part for enjoyment and sport of course isn’t going to be quite as safe as playing a round of Golf after all (and I’m sure all of us know this), but an incident that could make the evening news would cost us dearly, and make us all who train at an advanced level or shoot “competitively” look bad (not to mention get someone killed). That said, part of me doesn’t want to be an a**hole unnecessarily, and wants the new shooters to to have a good experience and help the club/sports/training-ethos grow.
Personally, just as Todd’s as well as my experience shows, there’s plenty of evidence that a lot of people just can’t handle the responsibility that goes with using firearms, and while I think most of us want to be good ambassadors for the ones that can and want to further their skills, the douchebag encounters are inevitable, and in the interest of safety we’ll probably always have to DQ them, remind them where their muzzle is pointed, tell them to stick to airsoft/paintball, etc…
Welcome to America … where you are free to be stupid.
There is no question as to the jackasses that own guns. I was at a match where a new shooter loaded his pistol away from the shooting line in anticipation of his turn. Another shooter instructed him of the rules — of the sport and the range — and that he had to be DQ’ed. The new shooter got really pissed, argued, and even threatened to meet the other shooter in the parking lot. (I’m glad he never came back.) Attitude has everything to do with it.
But let’s consider the opposite situation: a new shooter that wants to shoot and learn.
I have seen SO’s (at matches) [smugly] tell new shooters they are not ready and to go home. Unfortunately, I have yet to see those shooters return. Although the new shooter may not be ready for the complex and high demands of action pistol competition, this situation belittles the new shooter and gives them a bad taste for the shooting community, at least the competition shooting community.
Many of the competitors complain that new shooters take too long and hold up the match.
I have been considering for a while, a “beginners IDPA/USPSA competition”. It is obvious at some matches that the courses were not designed with beginners in mind — people not cognisent of their muzzle, trigger finger, or low backstops. It really puts new shooters in a bad situation to require them to do six things at once when they barely know how to reload their gun. It’s a bad experience for new shooter, SO, and competition. Shooter attitude is a whole other issue in this scenario. (Who likes being told (repeatedly) they are doing something wrong, especially when your mind is racing with 500 things they have to do all the while carrying a loaded firearm and under the pressure of a buzzer-timer?)
My other thought is that Europe has very strict gun laws in which would-be shooters must go through several exams, tests, and courses — both shooting and written — before allowed to possess/own/shoot a handgun. Any foul-ups — launching a round over the berm, improper storage, etc. — and the shooter will never be allowed to own a handgun, again. This is very inconvenient and probably overkill, but every European handgun shooter really knows about safety, proper gun handling, and respect for the weapon.
Now, I don’t think America needs to go that far, but it does say something about responsible gun ownership.
It would have been better if the door marked “NOT AN EXIT” was a closet.
We have enough of an issue in Orlando with people going and shooting themselves(intentionally) at indoor ranges, I’m glad I shoot at an outdoor range similar to JodyH’s range.
I’ve been at a local indoor range on two separate instances where people rented guns and decided to take their own life (one was during our IDPA safety officer training class). I have no use for anyone who cannot follow safe gun handing rules and even less for someone who will not listen to an RO / SO when they try to correct them.
We’ve had to DQ folks at various matches over the years but we have never had any one throw a tantrum with us…. Perhaps we’re just lucky….
I was an RO at the NRA Range for ten years before I retired and moved west. I can recall two occasions where I encountered a range customer who refused to listen to repeated corrective actions to the point where I had to ask them politely but firmly to leave the premises. One complied immediately. The other got snarky and said he was not going to leave. I then explained to the customer that if he refused to leave I would call a cease fire and order everyone to clear the line, then I would contact the Fairfax County Police, explain to the dispatcher that I have an ARMED trespasser in the range that refuses to leave. Additionally I told the customer that when the Police arrive they will not be nice! After that explanation he complied with my request and then later called the Range manager on Monday to complain about me.
ADR — Wow, wish I’d been there for that. What makes people think they can ignore Range Officers?
A range that I frequented back home had a pretty good set up, all new members were required to watch a 20 min. video on range rules that was very thorough and easily understood, afterwards an employee verbally runs you through a series of test questions on the video and if you do not pass you do not shoot. In addition to this everyone is required to repeat this process periodically. Rapid fire and fast draws were allowed, all in perfect safety.